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Elo - Weight Mismatching - Ecm - All The Fun Gone...


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#21 hammerreborn

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostKhobai, on 01 March 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

The problem isnt the ELO or the matchmaker.

The problem is the gamemodes that favor the team with the most light mechs. All this capture the base crap needs to get thrown out in favor of a gamemode which allows all weight classes to perform equally well.


And assault doesn't favor heavier mechs how?

Honestly, I thought the other guys comment was bad but this takes the cake

#22 Khobai

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

Quote

And assault doesn't favor heavier mechs how?


Because of base cap.

Also for whatever reason you don't seem to think lights are just as capable of doing as much damage as heavies or assaults. Well they are. It's not uncommon for good raven or commando pilots to top the damage charts.

#23 Glythe

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:55 PM

My premium is out in less than 10 days and I think I'll give this game a rest. I've got my 100 million saved up for when the 100 ton clan assault mech comes out. I'm going to need more incentive to keep paying much less keep playing.

View PostKhobai, on 01 March 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

It's not uncommon for good raven or commando pilots to top the damage charts.


That's true but I've seen a raven do over 700 damage exactly once.

I can do the same in my Atlas about every other game (average game is 500-800). One of my best games in the commando got me 580 or something damage. My best assault score with no LRMs is over 1000. My best score with LRMs is 1600 damage (not a fluke... was immediately preceded by a 1400 damage game).

Let's see a Raven do that. If he does now it's a fluke Elo mismatch.

Edited by Glythe, 01 March 2013 - 08:57 PM.


#24 hammerreborn

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

And assaults can base cap....so what's your point?

#25 Culler

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

It's even rougher piloting a medium now than it used to be. Regularly I'll drop in a team that's a majority of mediums and face heavies and assaults. We typically don't win those games, big shocker. For instance, one game tonight had 5 mediums on my side, 2 heavies, and 1 assault. Their team had 5 heavies, 1 medium, and 2 assaults. It's not hard to figure out which teams has the advantage when they've got 100 tons on you.

#26 Thor77

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:06 PM

Just played a few dozen games today the vast majority were fun. Won some, lost some, led my team, died first but overall I thought the matchmaking was quite solid. Most were fairly competitive. I stomped a couple, and was stomped a couple, but sometimes **** happens.

#27 Training Instructor

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

Love How so many people act like seeing 7 optimized ecm mechs against a team with zero is fair.

News for people: if you are in a high bracket, those 7 ecm mechs are not being driven by re.tards. Your brilliant counter strats of focus fire and positioning might work for a very disciplined 8 man on coms. For 8 strangers who are good players, it is death.

So much advice is given on this forum that i rarely see in practice in game.

#28 hammerreborn

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:12 PM

View PostTraining Instructor, on 01 March 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Love How so many people act like seeing 7 optimized ecm mechs against a team with zero is fair.

News for people: if you are in a high bracket, those 7 ecm mechs are not being driven by re.tards. Your brilliant counter strats of focus fire and positioning might work for a very disciplined 8 man on coms. For 8 strangers who are good players, it is death.

So much advice is given on this forum that i rarely see in practice in game.


So if you're in a high bracket you're to assume the other team is a force of teamed destruction (when likely in this situation it's two completely separate teams that have their own strats) but your own team has no clue how to work together at all. Gotcha.

I do love the argument that things are unbalanced because one team is super skilled premade of death and the others are pants wetting morons.

(You do realize that unless those stalkers were LRM boats the ECM does exactly nothing to all of the direct fire the opponent has right?)

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 March 2013 - 09:13 PM.


#29 Khobai

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

Quote

And assaults can base cap....so what's your point?


Not really. Because an assault can't run away when the base defenders come back.

Also have you ever tried capping anything in an assault on alpine? Its a joke.

#30 Darwins Dog

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

PGI has actually acknowledged all of those. They realize that ECM is on every mech that can have it, and needs to be adjusted. They told you when Elo went live that it would be adjusted when the got more data. Weight mismatching, same as before, they know it's not quite right, and are working on it.

Read the Dev posts and try not to be so dramatic next time.

#31 Ashnod

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostBarnaby Jones, on 01 March 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:



Premade is a premade?

And you lost to a cap..

Edited by Ashnod, 01 March 2013 - 09:40 PM.


#32 Training Instructor

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:45 PM

View Posthammerreborn, on 01 March 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

So if you're in a high bracket you're to assume the other team is a force of teamed destruction (when likely in this situation it's two completely separate teams that have their own strats) but your own team has no clue how to work together at all. Gotcha.

I do love the argument that things are unbalanced because one team is super skilled premade of death and the others are pants wetting morons.

(You do realize that unless those stalkers were LRM boats the ECM does exactly nothing to all of the direct fire the opponent has right?)


You confused the word team with premade, which was the first of several assumptions you made.

I'm not stu.pid, and neither are most of the replies in this thread so far, but you're assuming we all are.

We all know direct fire weapons work against ECM, and you're hardly the first, and certainly not the best, person to provide that cliched response.

So brilliant player, what do you do in this match? It's a match played under the new ruleset, so the players on the other team aren't fools.

Do you say, "focus fire Bravo"? Oh wait, you have no idea who Bravo is because everyone on their team is under the magic stealth cloak. Do you say, "The DDC is cored, hit his CT"? Oh wait, no one on your team has any idea exactly which DDC you are talking about because they can neither see the health of the enemy, nor determine which of the four Atlases you are referring to. "But wait", you say, "Use TAG to break ECM so you can see who you're fighting". Another smart move, keep your CT exposed to four DDC Atlases just so you identify one of them to see what their health is and what weapons they are carrying.

Honestly, I get the impression you think we're stupid. You're the one pretending someone dropping solo could do something legitimate against what is either two premades, or utterly terrible matchmaking in a high bracket.

Fact: You would die and lose to that team 99.9% of the time, because they're carrying direct fire weapons as well.

#33 sykboi

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

ECM gets annoying, but I like it better than the eternal lrm storm. I just hope they make it more dynamic of a tool, the ppc was a good step. but my poor beagle has been mothballed.
Weight mismatches on the other hand, a flock of lights and your stuck with assaults trying to cap points, or a bunch of meds getting rolled hard by getting outweighed. That I think is a change already in the making. But how much can you expect, If they take most the mechs at random they could try to hit a theoretical optimal team tonnage with the last 2 or 3 being weighed to give some aspect of balance. but to filter through all those waiting and try to put together a "good match", easier to just make forming your own teams with looking for player slots available the norm. I don't envy them figuring this one out.
just my 2 cents

#34 Erasus Magnus

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostTraining Instructor, on 01 March 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:


You confused the word team with premade, which was the first of several assumptions you made.

I'm not stu.pid, and neither are most of the replies in this thread so far, but you're assuming we all are.

We all know direct fire weapons work against ECM, and you're hardly the first, and certainly not the best, person to provide that cliched response.

So brilliant player, what do you do in this match? It's a match played under the new ruleset, so the players on the other team aren't fools.

Do you say, "focus fire Bravo"? Oh wait, you have no idea who Bravo is because everyone on their team is under the magic stealth cloak. Do you say, "The DDC is cored, hit his CT"? Oh wait, no one on your team has any idea exactly which DDC you are talking about because they can neither see the health of the enemy, nor determine which of the four Atlases you are referring to. "But wait", you say, "Use TAG to break ECM so you can see who you're fighting". Another smart move, keep your CT exposed to four DDC Atlases just so you identify one of them to see what their health is and what weapons they are carrying.

Honestly, I get the impression you think we're stupid. You're the one pretending someone dropping solo could do something legitimate against what is either two premades, or utterly terrible matchmaking in a high bracket.

Fact: You would die and lose to that team 99.9% of the time, because they're carrying direct fire weapons as well.

i agree.

http://mwomercs.com/...rfare-an-essay/

this thread sums up the problems of ecm nicely imho.

#35 KharnZor

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostSeverus Baggins Kerensky, on 01 March 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:


Yeah guys let's nerf ECM since it's so easy to backcap with Ravens. I think the fact that they couldn't wipe out the other team means that ECM doesn't do anything except make it easy to backcap. Then it's a problem with base capture, not ECM. Even if ECM is gone and we're back to Jenner D days, you will still get backcapped since THE PROBLEM IS STILL THERE.

This is like complaining girls don't like you because you stink like rotting garbage so the solution is REMOVE GIRLS' SENSE OF SMELL.

If you hate getting backcapped so much, stop playing Assault. Or scout the enemy before you move out. Oh, too logical?

A no ecm zone inside the red square.

#36 Xie Belvoule

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

View PostApostal, on 01 March 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Well I'm getting to the point of putting this game aside until PGI acknowledge that there are major flaws in their elo and matchmaking systems...

1) ELO bracket widening, much not high... so much that trying to get out of the initial new player 1300 range is near impossible unless you 4man cheese stomp. Every 3/5 games is a stomping, pure and simple, players don't know how to use their mech or even basic tactics of 'stay together'.

2) Weight mismatching - I don't care if it's done to death, at the present time the system isn't taking weight classes into any solid account. It can't find someone your elo so it grabs the first person (typically in a heavier mech). Or is abused by groups of players to obtain biased weight distributions in a match. They need to tighten the parameter for elo vs weight class... I don't care if a game takes 2min to find if I enjoy it.

3) ECM - it's the broken aspect at the present moment... even a bad player in a 3L raven is going to clean the floor of other mechs... particularly since they tend to come in flocks on one team only. The system needs to account for the ecm variants that players are using and match them up easily... I'm sure there's plenty of ecm spam in the queue ready to be balanced.

It's not an enjoyable experience at the moment... and all the 'be a hero' tourney did was mask these imbalances until after the event simply because people were dropping solo. Now 4 man's are stomping (which elo was meant to prevent), PGI need to tweak this system on a weekly basis, 2 weeks is much too long to leave the system broken. The weekly tweaks will also ensure reaching the optimum parameters in a faster timeframe so that people can actually look forward to drops.


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#37 Maven Cole

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

On ECM lights
I've only played this game for little over a month now but I think ECM is crucial to the game balance. While certain rules surrounding ECM could be tweaked you can say that about anything in the "Beta" stage of the game.

I can pull an average of 400 damage in most games which is fine while mostly using the ECM to stay hidden and speed in a light to choose the right situation to take advantage of.

Anyone can beat anything at any time depending on the situation, to be consistently good at this game creating that favorable situation is the true skill regardless of ECM

#38 Nightfire

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostTheFlyingScotsman, on 01 March 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

If you quit and come back later, you will hurt your gameplay experience, not fix it.

This is only true if you accept certain premises.
The main one being that there is no fault with the current Matchmaker system that if fixed will not result in better gameplay. I call falsehood on that premise!

Stronger enforcement of weight classes.
Narrowing of the deviation between Elo scores on a team.
Balancing of ECM by giving ECM carrying mechs a higher value.

These 3 alone would significantly improve the state of gameplay delivered by the Matchmaker.

So I reject your premise! I'll make my statement where it matters, in the statistics. I refuse to play until PGI announce that the Matchmaker has been tweaked. The one that matters most to me is the deviation between Elo scores on a team. Fix that and I'll play again.

Leave things as they are and it won't hurt my gameplay later one because there won't be any gameplay to hurt. I may only be one but perhaps, just perhaps, I am one of many.





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