57 replies to this topic

[Strongpaw]

Reality=The Limited amount of missile tubes on mech's makes no sense at All.
the debate so far...

Quote



Spirit of the Wolf, on 28 February 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:


It's a feature. Deal with it. You're not paying 10 tons for 20 tubes. You're paying 10 tons for the ability to launch 20 missiles without a cooldown.
Strongpaw, on 28 February 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:
It is a broken feature and I am trying to get it dealt with. So an LRM20 is supposed to do (x,Missiles that hit target per volley launched) That gives the DPS value of the volley, DPS being Damage Per Second.
So my understanding of your point is my LRM20 is not supposed to be doing Damage at all but DPS being Displaying Pretty Specialfeature? that causes heat to my mech and allows me to launch a pretty display every 30 seconds correct? instead of being an LRM 20 with normal fire rate, damage and cool down?

Spirit of the Wolf:
Wow.
You either don't know what I'm talking about in the slightest, or you're intentionally using a Straw Man argument to divert the conversation.
All DPS values are based off of the weapon being fired at full force in one shot. Only missiles can be fired in multiple shots. It affects SSRMs, SRMs, and LRMs with equal results, but, due to smaller number of missile ports, is more likely to affect LRMs. This does not mean that "my LRM20 is not supposed to be doing Damage at all"

Wait...
My Common Sense is tingling!

It means you need to put the LRM 20 on something other than a f****** raven.
Would you mount the gun from a Battleship onto an SUV? No, because it doesn't make any friggin sense.

What on earth makes you think that PGI will ever change the missile port amounts on the mechs? It's a feature inherent to the game, and it creates balance. I reiterate: deal with it.
Edited by Spirit of the Wolf, Today, 02:55 AM. Quote

The Reality rears its ugly head!

I'll go with that Take my AWS-9M Awesome, Devastating Assault mech with 3 Missile Hard points! Excellent! 3 LRM 20's Here I come!!! Assault level Firepower!!!!!

But Wait 2 of the 3 Hard points are in the center torso ok so 2xsrm 4's at best there, that settled! Ok LRM 20 in the Left ARM. YES DPS HERE I COME!!!!!

Reality strikes and defeats tingling common sense! DPS being Displaying Pretty Specialfeature! Awesome 9M has 2 tubes in the Cenrter Torso and 2 tubes in the left arm for 4 tubes for those 28 missiles!

Reality Strikes! My Raven RVN 3L 2 missile hard points. 6 tubes Right Torso, 1 Tube Left Arm!!! So LRM 20 RT and SRM 6 Left Arm flowing through 7 tubes = More DPS (Damage Per Second) Than the Awesome 9M with its 4 tubes.

No wonder everyone's using the Ravens they Out DPS ASSAULT MECHS!!!!

Point made, common sense defeated and out the window.

[Moromillas]

What is this thread about?

[General Taskeen]

Its not really a feature, 3D Modular Design is slowly in the works:

Quoting Dev Post

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 February 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

For the most part, the reason for some 'tube' issues is because the art for them has not been addressed yet. There are numerous possibilities for loadouts which all could use their own specific look.


Best example is the Catapult-K2 With PPC's on you get the long tubes on the arms. If you make K2 without anything on the arms you get the stubs.


In a perfect world, equipping 3 LRM10's on the left torso 'should' yield attachments that total 30 tubes. (or 3x5 if 30 just looks strange, then fire in two volleys)


You concern is valid and should be addressed by the design and art teams if they so choose.


Although the benefit of this fix will be negligible because if I give you 30 holes, it would not look much different if you have 10. You will still have 30 missiles flying at you.

Inyc, on 21 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

So will every weapon eventually have its own graphic on a mech when equipped / closed ports if nothing is put in? Like if I put 2 AC/5 on the side of an atlas, will I see 2 barrels?

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 21 February 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

*Fingers crossed

In other words, modular 3D design (that is, your missile ports or weapon appearances changing based on what you put there) is slowly making it into the game, its just not a high priority.

[Strongpaw]

Moromillas, on 01 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

What is this thread about?

The thread is about Damage being nerfed because of 'lack of tubes' on larger mechs so a LRM 20 is Supposed to fire 20 missiles every 4.75 seconds giving you a high DPS or Damage per second

The reality is that if your LRM 20 is firing from a spot that has 2 tubes it fire 2 missiles per second for 10 seconds then you have a 4.75 second cool down turning DPS into Display Pretty Specialfeature.

[Tarman]

Wait, I thought missiles were OP. Now they aren't again?

I can't keep track of it anymore. It's like cholesterol in eggs, one week it'll kill you and the next it's EAT ALL THE EGGS.

[Strongpaw]

Tarman, on 01 March 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Wait, I thought missiles were OP. Now they aren't again?

I can't keep track of it anymore. It's like cholesterol in eggs, one week it'll kill you and the next it's EAT ALL THE EGGS.

The best way to see what i'm talking about is take a mech that has a missile hard point with just one or two missile tubes in that section. put an lrm 15 or 20 into that spot and fire it. Just be ready to hold the missile target lock display on the mech you are targeting for 10 seconds every time you fire because thats how long it takes before you get your cool
down between 'launches'

[Utilyan]

The reason i bought the treb 7m is for that single missle tube. You can dummy fire lrms so fun. Srm6 you can have a pretty accurate stream.

[Team Leader]

Tarman, on 01 March 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Wait, I thought missiles were OP. Now they aren't again?

I can't keep track of it anymore. It's like cholesterol in eggs, one week it'll kill you and the next it's EAT ALL THE EGGS.

Nah I think it's actually pretty healthy to eat a lot of egg. But not like, too much. Anyways yeah missiles blah blah blah FIX IT!!!1!!!1!!!!

[Fajther]

Grow up! It is an awesome feature that your are trying to stop. I love missiles more then the most people, but what you are asking will allow just as many if not more people on the other side of the issue to hate it just as much. You are not "fixing " anything. You are just complaining and that is it. We need less of what you are doing now! This type of thing, and not the game mechanic is what is wrong currently.

[Moromillas]

Strongpaw, on 01 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

The thread is about Damage being nerfed because of 'lack of tubes' on larger mechs so a LRM 20 is Supposed to fire 20 missiles every 4.75 seconds giving you a high DPS or Damage per second

The reality is that if your LRM 20 is firing from a spot that has 2 tubes it fire 2 missiles per second for 10 seconds then you have a 4.75 second cool down turning DPS into Display Pretty Specialfeature.

On larger batteries, you sacrifice a little bit of DPS for a little bit more sustained DPS. Or, another way to put it, you sacrifice faster reload times, and generate less heat.

Tubes? Are you talking about missile hardpoints? If you're talking about the weapons themselves, the LRM 20 fires 20 missiles when you use it, and that's about it.

[Gaan Cathal]

Strongpaw, on 01 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

The thread is about Damage being nerfed because of 'lack of tubes' on larger mechs so a LRM 20 is Supposed to fire 20 missiles every 4.75 seconds giving you a high DPS or Damage per second

The reality is that if your LRM 20 is firing from a spot that has 2 tubes it fire 2 missiles per second for 10 seconds then you have a 4.75 second cool down turning DPS into Display Pretty Specialfeature.

Good thing the weapons are listed by damage per volley then, not DPS isn't it?

[General Taskeen]

Fajther, on 01 March 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Grow up! It is an awesome feature that your are trying to stop.

Refer to my post quoting a Dev. It is not a feature.

[Trev Firestorm]

On the one hand, modular tubes would be nice/make sense, on the other it would ruin the fun of 1 tube lrm20 and the 1 and 2 tube srm6 streaming mode (which should be fun on the upcoming hero cicada).

[OneEyed Jack]

Strongpaw, on 01 March 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

The reality is that if your LRM 20 is firing from a spot that has 2 tubes it fire 2 missiles per second for 10 seconds then you have a 4.75 second cool down turning DPS into Display Pretty Specialfeature.

Well, first of all it's not nearly that slow. Besides that, if you don't like it, don't put that launcher there. There are other mechs with more tubes you could be playing.

Moromillas, on 01 March 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Tubes? Are you talking about missile hardpoints? If you're talking about the weapons themselves, the LRM 20 fires 20 missiles when you use it, and that's about it.

Tubes, as in the graphical missiles tubes shown for any launcher, the number being based on the stock loadout. Such as the raven having a 6-tube launcher on one side and a single-tube NARC launcher on the other. If you try to mount a launcher that fires more missiles than the tubes shown, they will fire in multiple volleys each of the number of tubes until it's fired the full amount. For instance if you put a LRM20 in the hardpoint the NARC came in, rather than fire 20 missiles at once, you will fire a stream of 20 single missiles, one at a time, each time you fire the weapon. It's really quite amusing. Everyone should try it at least once. The OPs gripe seems to be that he wants to be able to fire a larger launcher in a single volley from the arm of his Treb-7K, which only has 2 tubes.

It's been announced that this will be corrected at some point, when they get around to having the graphics always update to whatever weapon(s) you mount (which I hope, probably in vain, will shut up all the whiners about the ballistic mounts on the K2). As it stands, if you have multiple launchers, they can fire out of the same tubes at the same time. For instance if you have 3 hardpoints and only 6 tubes you could fire 3 SRM6s in a single volley, but a single LRM20 would fire 4 volleys (6/6/6/2).

[Cest7]

Limited missile tubes are a unique factor for a mech, like torso twist range and max engine capabilities...

Do we really want each chassis/variant to be less unique...?

[Jestun]

I have no problem with it how it is.

That said, the devs posts look interesting and I would very much support the model changing to display (and have the features of, such as number of missile tubes) the appropriate weapon.

[JadePanther]

but I liked shooting an srm6 outta the single arm tube on a raven.. It was fun and there was no srm spread for srms to miss.. So u just have to aim a lil better and longer but they all go where u aim.. call it a six shooter.. They go pew pew pew pew pew pew right wherever ur pointing ur cursor..

Where else can u shoot a SRM 6 at a 200m+ target and hit all 6 missiles.

As for putting an lrm in there and 1 ton ammo.. guess what u now have.. U have the invisible behind buildings enemy detection kit.. Gotta love how AMS will shoot at anything.. Just pop a 20 single shot in a wide arc thru the sky.. Watch for AMS traceers and viola enemy found.

Also 20 missiles shot single file at an enemy with AMS means they will soon have no more AMS ammo.. That long stream of 20 missiles will cost him prollly like 2 or 3 hundred rounds of AMS ammo.. U can force depeltion of AMS easily with this kind of setup

Edited by JadePanther, 02 March 2013 - 06:13 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

While modular mech graphics will be nice it is a feature that will have to wait YEARS since you would have to fix unique parts to every mech model in the game - even for weapons not normally supposed to be on certain hulls because it would literally look silly.

Like a raven with a Gauss Rifle as it is suddenly having 60% of it's weight on it's right arm. And, yes, the Urbanmech with the same thing.

Each mech had to be designed to look "right" regardless of weapon mounted. For example, a Raven with the 1 tube mount that can actually fit a LRM20. Then you need everything in between and the combination with the other mount.

Twin LRM5 can be fixed by 1 graphical representation of a LRM10 so some shortcuts can be taken but it's a damn lot of work.

[Smokin Dragon]

Strongpaw, on 01 March 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

Reality=The Limited amount of missile tubes on mech's makes no sense at All.
the debate so far...

Quote

I'll go with that Take my AWS-9M Awesome, Devastating Assault mech with 3 Missile Hard points! Excellent! 3 LRM 20's Here I come!!! Assault level Firepower!!!!!

But Wait 2 of the 3 Hard points are in the center torso ok so 2xsrm 4's at best there, that settled! Ok LRM 20 in the Left ARM. YES DPS HERE I COME!!!!!

Reality strikes and defeats tingling common sense! DPS being Displaying Pretty Specialfeature! Awesome 9M has 2 tubes in the Cenrter Torso and 2 tubes in the left arm for 4 tubes for those 28 missiles!

Reality Strikes! My Raven RVN 3L 2 missile hard points. 6 tubes Right Torso, 1 Tube Left Arm!!! So LRM 20 RT and SRM 6 Left Arm flowing through 7 tubes = More DPS (Damage Per Second) Than the Awesome 9M with its 4 tubes.

No wonder everyone's using the Ravens they Out DPS ASSAULT MECHS!!!!

Point made, common sense defeated and out the window.

OP seems to have confused DPS with alpha

LRM20 fired from 20 tubes = 20x1.8 damage every 7 seconds or so
LRM20 fired from 10 tubes = 10x1.8 damage every 3 seconds

ok i understands that it's not evenly spaced over time BUT THE POINT REMAINS

DPS IS EXACTLY THE SAME. AT WORST THEY MIGHT LIVE 1 SECOND LONGER AND KILL YOU

you buy a LRM 20 you do 36 damage per volley at present.

if that damage takes 2 seconds, 1 second or 0 seconds to spread over the target, it makes little practical diference, since you probably shot most of the missiles into a hill anyway, or your spotter broke lock and you shot nothing, since that is pretty much my experience with using the damn things. 0 dps.

Edited by Smokin Dragon, 02 March 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Jestun]

The more important thing is AMS.

Firing in missiles in multiple groups spreads them out more and lets AMS counter more of them.