30 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

PGI is highlighting a glaring size to weight disparity in their advertisement for buying trial mechs this week.

The Cicada is about the same order of magnitude bigger than the Jenner than the Catapult is to the Cicada. The difference of course is that the Cicada only weighs five more tons than the Jenner, while the Catapult weighs 25 more tons than the Cicada.

Dear PGI, please make the Cicada smaller.

[Yokaiko]

Why are ALL of the mediums as large as they are.

Centurions biggest failing is its size, and treb is right behind it, the damn things are large.

[Sephlock]

Balance reasons, I guess.

Medium mechs are the Claw* of MW:O.

*The Street Fighter character.

[Gralzeim]

Because 7 8 9! Wait, wrong joke.

I don't know, it's bigger on the outside but not...on the inside? Kind of a reverse Tardis?

[valkyrie]

Oh man, so many jokes I could make in this thread that would get me banned. You have no idea.

[MechWarrior849305]

Gralzeim, on 03 March 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

Because 7 8 9! Wait, wrong joke.

Well, actually "1,2,9"... Cirno is going to freeze you
That was wrong joke too

Edited by DuoAngel, 03 March 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Gralzeim]

valkyrie, on 03 March 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Oh man, so many jokes I could make in this thread that would get me banned. You have no idea.

Almost fell to the same temptation.

Edited by Gralzeim, 03 March 2013 - 12:21 AM.

[SuomiWarder]

Because the Cicada is a "medium" mech, thus it must be in the "medium" mech hight range. This is taller than the "light" range of sizes by the way. (Basically because thats the way PGI/Pirahna envisioned them).

[Onyx]

Why is there a giant walking mech that weighs less than half the weight of an M1 Abrams tank with dimmensions of 25 feet long by 12 feet wide by 8 feet tall mounting weapons that can probably incinerate an Abrams in a single shot?

Why is a centurion easily at least 30 feet tall and still weighs less than that Abrams despite having all the complex machinery required to power and move around a walking mini-skyscraper still mounting those doomweapons of death?

As far as I'm concerned, battletech weights make no sense compared to size and what's actually going on without moving into the realm of fantasy composites, and anything else related to weight versus size is functionally irrelevant as such. Maybe the designer wanted a mech that was very large because it could mount more crap in the torso and was able to see over more objects with the added height. It's hard to say, really, when trying to apply logic to an arbitrary fictional setting.

Should it be as large? Hard to say. The scale of mechs are hard to understand because of the game's lack of readily identifiable elements to determine height. All that matters is that this is what it is, and there's nothing fundamentally illogical about it.

Now if you wanted to argue the cockpit size of X mech versus Y mech when comparing internal and external views, there might be a more relevant thought experiment to be had.

[Mazzyplz]

there's nothing that makes it impossible as onyx said, cicadas seem to have their components "not packed as tightly?"
maybe their hollow components were made more thin on outer shell and spread out bigger to archieve the same armor as a raven on a bigger package. who knows.

cockpit does seem to take up a lot of space on the cicada though! it looks like a ship's bridge

Edited by Mazzyplz, 03 March 2013 - 12:37 AM.

[Garfuncle]

The mechs feel the right size, it's just that in the medium class we have too many humanoid mediums. I hope the blackjack is a decent size.

[B E E L Z E B U B]

mass (in reality) has nothing to do with volume. density is the atomic name of the game. in other words if were getting technical, the mass of each mech is proportional to his own size, and only his own size. you cant compare 2 cars from different brands and absolutely guarantee that the smaller one weighs less.

trust me im an (mech) engineer

Edited by Karma Police, 03 March 2013 - 12:42 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Karma Police, on 03 March 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

mass (in reality) has nothing to do with volume. density is the atomic name of the game. in other words if were getting technical, the mass of each mech is proportional to his own size, and only his own size. you cant compare 2 cars from different brands and absolutely guarantee that the smaller one weighs less.

trust me im an (mech) engineer

Looking at the volume-to-mass in this game, one would think that some of the mechs are hollow.

Cicada is a puny little thing, there's no reason for it to be that huge compared to Jenner and Raven balance-wise.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 03 March 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Training Instructor, on 02 March 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

The Cicada is about the same order of magnitude bigger than the Jenner than the Catapult is to the Cicada. The difference of course is that the Cicada only weighs five more tons than the Jenner, while the Catapult weighs 25 more tons than the Cicada.

Because the Jenner is tiny, the Raven - at the same weight as the Jenner - is more reasonably proportioned in comparison with the Cicada. The Jenner is more like the size of a damn Commando, with a 10 ton weight advantage.

[Ralgas]

Alex Wolfe, on 03 March 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Looking at the volume-to-mass in this game, one would think that some of the mechs are hollow.

Cicada is a puny little thing, there's no reason for it to be that huge compared to Jenner and Raven balance-wise.

This chart only works if you're looking at mechs in 2d <.<

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Gaan Cathal, on 03 March 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

Because the Jenner is tiny, the Raven - at the same weight as the Jenner - is more reasonably proportioned in comparison with the Cicada. The Jenner is more like the size of a damn Commando, with a 10 ton weight advantage.

All the lights are too small. Or everything else is too large. Based on the in-game models, an atlas should weigh much more than three ravens. And yeah, someone is going to say "but they might have different densities!", but that doesn't make much sense given that (a) you'd try to build the things as small as possible to present more difficult targets, and (, all mechs have roughly the same internal capacity for weapons and equipment, as demonstrated by the number of critical slots. What's the atlas doing with all that empty space? Of course it's all about game balance, but I think you'd see more lights acting as scouts if the couldn't rely on being tiny to avoid being hit in a brawl.

Edit: apparently if you put the letter b in parenthesis, it turns into a face wearing sunglasses. Learn something new everyday...

Edited by Fitzbattleaxe, 03 March 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[WolvesX]

Because the TBT is as big as an AWE maybe?

[Adridos]

Maybe because the Cicada is a failed, oversized Locust replacement?

No matter the size, it will never be the boat numero uno and as such will never be considered "good", so no point in trying.

[Cest7]

Adridos, on 03 March 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

Maybe because the Cicada is a failed, oversized Locust replacement?

No matter the size, it will never be the boat numero uno and as such will never be considered "good", so no point in trying.

Lets flame the chassis instead of continuing on topic with the weight/proportion fallacies.... The Jenner Vs. the Cicada, a mere 5 tons heavier but 25% taller..? Its out of proportion.

[Alex Wolfe]

Ralgas, on 03 March 2013 - 03:39 AM, said:

This chart only works if you're looking at mechs in 2d <.<

This chart works to illustrate the problem: what "5 tons" means varies greatly from chassis to chassis, and it leads to certain mechs being penalized (being too big targets for their armor).

If you go by volume "realistically", then size differences should be big at the lower end of the spectrum, and miniscule for bigger mechs (since they're so much bigger, a small increase in dimensions would result in easily gaining 5 tons of mass - like 5 kg difference is easily noticeable between toddlers, but not as apparent for adults). What we have instead is semi-linear, but with seemingly random variations.

When in doubt, go with game balance. Cicada, Centurion, Trebuchet and Dragon being such big targets for their weight class is not balanced IMO.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 03 March 2013 - 04:08 AM.