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#21 Alois Hammer

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:32 AM

View PostWarrax the Chaos Warrior, on 03 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

My TT knowledge is rather limited, but aren't LAMs something that even the original designers of Battletech regretted adding because they were lame?


Pretty much. Stay in stompy robots, just say "NO" to MechaTinkerbell.

#22 Anyone00

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:36 AM

Well the only LAM that wouldn't cause potential legal headaches with Harmony Gold aren't available till the Jihad era; plus as mentioned before netcode, map size, they either suck horribly or are OP, etc.

It's outside of MW:O timeline: With Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings why weren't WiGE light mechs ever developed (besides hitting the Dark Age and all)?

#23 Sayyid

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:38 AM

LAMs are dead, they died long ago.

If you want to fly become an Aerospace Pilot. If you want to work become a Mechwarrior.

(and they were written out of the Battletech lore for a reason)

#24 Risko Vinsheen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

For the record, they've made reseen versions of the LAMs.

Here's a Wasp LAM:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

But yeah. This game wouldn't support them. I don't think even Alpine is large enough for aerial strafing runs, not to mention I don't think there's much geography to the maps on the other side of those mountains that box us in for the LAMs to look at. And of course netcode has already been brought up.

#25 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

View PostJames Griffin, on 03 March 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

So with new rules supposedly coming out for Land Air 'Mechs in Interstellar OPS... can we have them?

Yes.
On table top. :)

#26 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:22 AM

View PostWarrax the Chaos Warrior, on 03 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

My TT knowledge is rather limited, but aren't LAMs something that even the original designers of Battletech regretted adding because they were lame?

I mean, the idea was clearly nothing more than a ripoff of Macross that never really made sense in the BT universe/ruleset.

Take into account the speed of a LAM in LAM mode and QQ would be a choir in the forums!

#27 Stone Profit

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:23 AM

No LAMS. Sorry. I would love to strafe the enemy in an Aerospace fighter but it aint gonna happen either.

#28 Buffalo Six

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:27 AM

Lams were so broken in TT that I didnt even care when they went unseen back in the day.....Good Riddance!

#29 Adridos

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:46 AM

View PostBuffalo Six, on 04 March 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Lams were so broken in TT that I didnt even care when they went unseen back in the day.....Good Riddance!

They have new rules and miniatures for them now.

#30 Buffalo Six

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

Well I kinda stopped playing after the 2nd global Martial Olympics....was that 2005-6 something like that?

When I do get a game going (not very often) I still use the BMR® rules

#31 tarlison2k11

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:31 AM

I would suggest it would be in my opinion called a LAM-MPS(Land Air Mech - Mass Produce System)(its not in the rule book on TT) variant it would have alot more of a down grade of the normal LAM as we know this is my suggestion

No ecm of those mech who can equip this so that it wont be OP
cant equip jump jets when they have this system

Mech Mode
Treat as having 4 jump jets

Common Qualities of Guardian and Fighter Mode:
They won't be able to fly more than 100 m high ( so people can shoot it down)
Hit by Ballistic weapons that causes it to shake will cause stalls
Cannot twist torso and arm like a battle mech instead the mouse is use as a controller(forward(Elevator down Fighter), backward(Elevator up Fighter), turn[Roll-fighter] right, turn[Roll-fighter] left) while the W(Throttle up) A(Move Side ways Left Guardian/Rudder left Fighter) S(Move Side ways right/Rudder Right Fighter) D(Throttle down and air brakes) in this mode


Guardian:
Can hover light a helicopter(VTOL)
Maximum Speed:1/2 of Mech Speed
Fighter
Minimum Speed:1/2 of Mech Speed (if fly less than minimum will stall and lost control until minimum speed in gain and might even crash)
Maximum Speed:Twice of Mech Speed (if go beyond maximum speed during a dive will lost control until it lowers speed to the maximum speed and even crash)

This is just a suggestion

Only Available to : Stinger, Wasp and Phoenix Hawk

Edited by tarlison2k11, 20 April 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#32 Skunk Wolf

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:06 AM

I think the important question everybody who wants LAM's should be asking is: WHY ISN'T THERE AN AWESOME MMO FLIGHT SIMULATOR GAME BASED ON MACROSS YET?

But seriously, they're as broken as a 20 year old pit mine mule.

#33 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:10 AM

View PostWarrax the Chaos Warrior, on 03 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

My TT knowledge is rather limited, but aren't LAMs something that even the original designers of Battletech regretted adding because they were lame?

I mean, the idea was clearly nothing more than a ripoff of Macross that never really made sense in the BT universe/ruleset.


It's funny considering that you know nothing of the licensing history of the images. FASA licensed the images from Studio Nue a year before HG licensed the outside of Japan worldwide marketing rights for SLDF: Macross from Tatsunoko. Big West/.Studio Nue took Tatsunoko to court in Japan and ended up winning two cases. The first was in 2002, where the court ruled that Big West/Studio Nue owned the mech/character designs while Tatsunoko owned the rights to the animation itself. In 2006, the Japanese Supreme Court upheld the prior holding and the rights were split. Big West/Studio Nue own the rights to the designs of the characters and mechs. Tatsunoko has the rights to the actual animation, but not anything contained within the animation. This only applies to SLDF: Macross and Super Dimension Calvary Southern Cross not the third series that comprises Robotech.

The other series that was spliced is Genesis Climber MOSPEDA which Big West/Studio Nue had nothing to do with it. Tatsunoko wholly owns Genesis Climber MOSPEDA.

Tatsunoko never had the authority to grant HG the license to the images since they didn't own them. HG's claims that they have the worldwide outside of Japan exclusive marketing rights and license to the images is not legally valid for one simple reason. Tatsunoko didn't own the rights to the designs and any contract that grants those rights is invalid from the date it was written even though the case was finally decided in 2006. Thus, HG's legal team has been in the wrong from the beginning and their trademarks in the US are also non-existent.

Now all it takes is for HG to be subjected to a lawsuit from Big West/Studio Nue or another company like Catalyst Games in the US for HG to be stripped of it all and have the license shredded by a judge. This is easy since Japan and the United States are both signatories to the Bern Convention. The Bern Convention is a treaty that enables owners of copyrights to sue another company that infringes upon their work if the infringing party is in a different country. Under the Bern Convention the infringing party is subject to the country of the copyright owner's copyright laws. In other words, a company like Big West/Studio Nue sues in US federal court for copyright infringement against HG; the US court must use the rulings from the Japanese courts that shows who owns what rights to the material. The US court must use Japanese copyright law first then use US copyright and contract law second in its deliberations as per the treaty titled Bern Convention. What ultimately happens is that HG loses the Tatsunoko contract forever and hopefully dies a horrible death.

The only company that had a legal license to the art has always been FASA. To clear up some misinformation about FASA's own legal history with HG is that they never lost a single case of copyright/trademark infringement brought to bear against them by HG. They won them all and only settled in 1996 with HG was to keep HG from using the courts to harass FASA and making them go bankrupt from legal bills.


View Posttarlison2k11, on 20 April 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I would suggest it would be in my opinion called a LAM-MPS(Land Air Mech - Mass Produce System)(its not in the rule book on TT) variant it would have alot more of a down grade of the normal LAM as we know this is my suggestion

No ecm of those mech who can equip this so that it wont be OP
cant equip jump jets when they have this system

Mech Mode
Treat as having 4 jump jets

Common Qualities of Guardian and Fighter Mode:
They won't be able to fly more than 100 m high ( so people can shoot it down)
Hit by Ballistic weapons that causes it to shake will cause stalls
Cannot twist torso and arm like a battle mech instead the mouse is use as a controller(forward(Elevator down Fighter), backward(Elevator up Fighter), turn[Roll-fighter] right, turn[Roll-fighter] left) while the W(Throttle up) A(Move Side ways Left Guardian/Rudder left Fighter) S(Move Side ways right/Rudder Right Fighter) D(Throttle down and air brakes) in this mode


Guardian:
Can hover light a helicopter(VTOL)
Maximum Speed:1/2 of Mech Speed
Fighter
Minimum Speed:1/2 of Mech Speed (if fly less than minimum will stall and lost control until minimum speed in gain and might even crash)
Maximum Speed:Twice of Mech Speed (if go beyond maximum speed during a dive will lost control until it lowers speed to the maximum speed and even crash)

This is just a suggestion

Only Available to : Stinger, Wasp and Phoenix Hawk



According the rules from previously published rulebooks, a LAM must always move, so it cannot hover. On the ground, a LAM in Air-Mech mode has its ground movement divided by a third and its jumping movement multiplied by a third. When it jumps it must always land at the end of its movement.

The game could support LAMs in Air-Mech and Battloid mode, but not in Aerospace mode. A LAM's jumping speed would be capped at about 180-200 kph and have a flight ceiling of about 500 meters.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 20 April 2013 - 07:21 AM.


#34 Rhent

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

View PostWarrax the Chaos Warrior, on 03 March 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

My TT knowledge is rather limited, but aren't LAMs something that even the original designers of Battletech regretted adding because they were lame?

I mean, the idea was clearly nothing more than a ripoff of Macross that never really made sense in the BT universe/ruleset.


LAM had to attribute weight to the transformation and jet mode. They were underarmed mechs and underarmed planes. They had an intermediate mode that gave them greatly enhanced jumping capability but it exposed their Infrastructure. The inbetween mode with greatly enhanced jumping could be added to the game with limited issues. Of course the pilots would have to do with 20% less weapon/armor to deal with the added weight.

#35 Alois Hammer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:24 AM

View Posttarlison2k11, on 20 April 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I would suggest it would be in my opinion called a LAM-MPS(Land Air Mech - Mass Produce System)(its not in the rule book on TT) variant it would have alot more of a down grade of the normal LAM as we know this is my suggestion


I still think they should be called "LAMEs" myself, and hope the devs stick with their current "won't be adding those, period" plan.

Of course given the whole "won't add Coolant because it negates the heat management mechanic" fiasco... :rolleyes:

#36 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:27 AM

View PostRhent, on 20 April 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:


LAM had to attribute weight to the transformation and jet mode. They were underarmed mechs and underarmed planes. They had an intermediate mode that gave them greatly enhanced jumping capability but it exposed their Infrastructure. The inbetween mode with greatly enhanced jumping could be added to the game with limited issues. Of course the pilots would have to do with 20% less weapon/armor to deal with the added weight.


That's looking at it as the glass is half empty. You could look at it from the glass is half full perspective and see it differently. The LAM variants of the Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk weigh more then their base variants due to the tonnage of the conversion equipment. They are great at the role they were designed for which is fast recon and ambushers, but sucked in stand up fights.

#37 tarlison2k11

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:33 AM

Well to me I think if u dont give them a down grade i think the mad would be too small and a 300 km/hr jet would still be fast but not fast enough to over shoot the map within 2 seconds its more of a game balancer.

#38 Roadbeer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:40 AM



#39 tarlison2k11

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

Well I guess we all are :rolleyes:

#40 tarlison2k11

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

and really can u hit a target flying at 1200 km/hr at least :)





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