24 replies to this topic

[Firesteel]

I decided to dust off the founder's catapult (which I run close to stock with 2x LRM 15s, 4x ML, 2x JJ std 260, Artemis, case, and six tons of ammo, with remaining weight for armor and 1 extra DHS)

I also have an advanced target decay module stuffed on it for aiding in indirect fire support.
Although it's not in the patch notes, I noticed LRMs' flight speed seemed quite a bit faster than previously. I got 3-4 kills that match and generally doing almost all the damage to the targets I destroyed.

I would strongly urge the devs to look at the damage values on LRMs and decrease them because now an Artemis equipped mech can shave off center and side torso armor in about 2 volleys depending on what type of mech it is shooting at.

I do like the decreased flight speed as it makes them much more capable as long range weapons.though they seem to be too damaging for the accuracy they have now.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I'm not the only one that noticed that then. 2 LRM volleys obliterated my Cat.

[NKAc Street]

If moving to cover still allows us to avoid getting hit by them it doesn't matter what they did to them because if you weren't using cover before, then your not going to be smart enough to use it now.

Edited by NKAc Street, 05 March 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[aniviron]

NKAc Street, on 05 March 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

If moving to cover still allows us to avoid getting hit by them it doesn't matter what they did to them because if you weren't using cover before, then your not going to be smart enough to use it now.

Except that LRM flight time has been decreased, which means less time to get back into cover if you peek. Might not matter much to a jenner, but in an Atlas, a second of flight time is the difference between getting cored and taking no damage.

[Thuzel]

Third that, they do seem faster and more effective now. Even without artemis or tag they feel much better.

[Kaeseblock]

Staying in the open is never a good idea if the enemy team uses LRMs.
Played several games post-patch and there was no noticable difference in the damage I dealt with my ALRMs since the enemies ducked and moved behind cover the same way they ever did.

Fighting with and against LRMs was and is always about clever positioning. If you did it right and had the necessary bit of luck getting 3-4 kills with LRMs was not that rare before this patch either.

The new flight animation looks a lot nicer than the one before^^

[Piranha]

The slightly faster speed is nice to have (I'm not even sure if they are actually faster), but LRM+Artemis now produces really tightly packed formations, that do almost all of their damage to just 1 section. At least that is the impression I got several times this evening (as an observer and as a target, only used LRMs without artemis tonight).

Before the patch, LRMs were "softening up" targets, stripping armor more or less evenly. LRM+Artemis now destroys entire sections in just one or two volleys, depending on what you are shooting at.

[Karenai]

I tend to lose more LRM on the way after the patch. Without the erratic flightpath they tend to lose more followers on edges and whatnot. It is more LBX quality flightpath.
If you hit someone dead on from around 300m the damage is harder hitting then before, but long range bombardmend seems to be less effective. But then again I am a spray and prey kind of LRM boat.

[RedDragon]

I don't know how the armor values are for the target mechs in the testing ground, but I tested 2 LRM15+Artemis on them and only took 2 salvos for a Centurion, 1 for a Jenner and 3 for an Awesome... seems a bit much damage, even when the targets are only stationary. But I'll have to test this in actual combat first.

[Thuzel]

-- Reposting from other thread, forgot this one was here --

LRM's felt much more effective after the patch, so I decided to run some quick tests:

With a single LRM15, testing grounds frozen city night, 300 meters to all targets, No assistance equipment, both mechs facing each other:

COM-1B
- Volley 1: removed LA LT RA RT, removed all armor from CT, Yellow internal CT
- Volley 2: Dead

CN9-A
- Volley 1: Yellow armor LT RT CT LL RL
- Volley 2: Removed armor CT, Yellow internal CT
- Volley 3: Orange armor LA LT RA RT RL LL, Orange Internal CT
- Volley 4: Dead

AWS-8Q
- Volley 1: Yellow armor RT LT, Orange armor CT
- Volley 2: Removed armor from CT LT, Yellow internal CT LT
- Volley 3: Red Internal CT LT
- Volley 4 Dead

Something is definitely going on here. It's supposed to be only 27 points of damage a volley, but the tests are indicating much more damage than that being done.

Unless the mechs populating the test grounds have significantly reduced armor and internal values, the damage values are definitely off. But they do seem to respond properly to other weapons, so they seem to be correctly armored.

[Cest7]

Thuzel, on 05 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

the mechs populating the test grounds have significantly reduced armor

That is all.

CBT LRMs would divebomb targets. This wasn't so bad for lights but against an atlas it would pop the head in 2-3 volleys. They were then tuned to spread a bit more.

[Stingz]

Cest7, on 05 March 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

That is all.

CBT LRMs would divebomb targets. This wasn't so bad for lights but against an atlas it would pop the head in 2-3 volleys. They were then tuned to spread a bit more.

Go tell that to the Awesome that took nothing but Head + CT damage from my x2 ART-15 + TAG Trebuchet earlier today(CT armor gone in 2 volleys).

Try it yourself, the stock Atlas-D has near-full armor in Training grounds. ART LRMs drill holes into enemy mechs (you can tell from the double-helix Artemis is active).

Edited by Stingz, 05 March 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[Eggs Mayhem]

RedDragon, on 05 March 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

I don't know how the armor values are for the target mechs in the testing ground, but I tested 2 LRM15+Artemis on them and only took 2 salvos for a Centurion, 1 for a Jenner and 3 for an Awesome... seems a bit much damage, even when the targets are only stationary. But I'll have to test this in actual combat first.

I got the same results even without artemis

LRMs are definitely hurting a lot more, almost to the point it was at when artemis was first introduced. I like that they hit more reliably and consistently than before, but some form of damage nerf might be needed to compensate.

[Thuzel]

EmperorMyrf, on 05 March 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

I got the same results even without artemis

LRMs are definitely hurting a lot more, almost to the point it was at when artemis was first introduced. I like that they hit more reliably and consistently than before, but some form of damage nerf might be needed to compensate.

Definitely agree. Its pretty obvious even in live games that they are much more potent now. Dropping a dragon with just 30 to 45 lrms is a big change.

Edited by Thuzel, 05 March 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Ravennus]

As others have mentioned, the armor on most of the stock mechs in the training grounds are really REALLY low.

Also, please consider that all these mechs are standing completely still.
If a mech is moving and also liking twisting around, some LRMs will miss or scatter damage around the components instead of focusing on one section.

This is especially true for light mechs running 150kph. In an actual game, using TAG and Artemis with a Commando in full LOS.... it takes me MUCH more than 1 or two salvos of LRM15 to destroy it if it is running full speed. Many of the missiles miss because of their high speed.


Please test in real games before calling for a nerf.

I've done so, and finally found that Artemis is actually worth taking... for both LRMs and SRMs.
Also remember that Artemis requires LOS, and is also very picky on what "LOS" means.
I've TAGed enemies and been able to see them, but still didn't get the Artemis effect, which is unfortunate.

[ICEFANG13]

Artemis has made LRMs too powerful honestly. They cut through you like a drill. The thing is so tightly packed, I would die to a single LRM-20 before I had time to get to cover consistently (in a Jenner).

[parman01]

My two cents for real game experience. I got easily two shot in my Atlas by Lrm Stalker. First volley put CT armor in deep red, second resulted in kill. Other parts were almost undamaged. Please note i have about 110 points of armor in front CT (i'm sort of never-turn-your-back kind of guy). Although i admitt i was not playing very smart thinking i could take more punishment

[Ravennus]

parman01, on 06 March 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

My two cents for real game experience. I got easily two shot in my Atlas by Lrm Stalker. First volley put CT armor in deep red, second resulted in kill. Other parts were almost undamaged. Please note i have about 110 points of armor in front CT (i'm sort of never-turn-your-back kind of guy). Although i admitt i was not playing very smart thinking i could take more punishment

If it was a true LRM boat Stalker, he was likely throwing 60+ LRMs at you per volley.
If you are just standing still, in the open and facing him.... yes, yes you should die. And quickly.


I've now had extensive experience with LRMs since the patch, and it actually seems that less LRMs connect if the target is moving (Artemis or no).
But if you stand still in the open, you will take a lot of hits. And they hurt. As they should.


LRMs aren't anywhere near overpowered, even after the Artemis fix that actually makes them somewhat useful.
People also seem to be forgetting that Artemis comes with a hefty cost in Cbills, tonnage and crit space. Should that not give something decent in return?

[Furmansky]

Well I took my AS7-K for a spin last night, 2 AMS +2 Tons of ammo. Quite a lot of LRM boats on opposing team. At some point I was main target of LRM's volleys.
Missile warning was going non stop and AMS ammo was running down like crazy. So I made myself a LRM target and drawn those things like flies to crap... had one more friendly lad with his AMS beside me and using cover I was fired upon for whole few minutes. Got some bad damage, and eventually was forced to retreat. But took so many missiles on me, still able to exchange fire and kill at least one...

Yeah if you caught in open by LRM boats and without single AMS or ECM cover you are doomed, yeah happened to me before as well... But I wasn't shouting LRM's are OP straight away... I put myself in that position not the guys that were firing at me. LRM's are easy to use only if you let them.

Lets play for those 2 weeks at least with things are like now, and hold with judging LRM's just after 1 night shall we?

[parman01]

Ravennus: You are right, I was standing almost still, trading damage with that Stalker at range about 400m. It was my first encounter with LRMs post-patch and I simply expected toughest mech in the game would take more than two salvos.

If this is however how it's supposed to work I will adapt my gamestyle of course. I was just really really surprised...I think I never died so quickly.