13 replies to this topic

[Duck Hunt]

Just started playing this game, Its actually really freaking fun. Its more of an arcade style game play but its FPV only.

It only lacks the customization that MWO has.

[Anjian]

I played it for a few weeks and had great fun. But the lack of content, updates and the shallow nature of the game eventually got to me in the end. This game got much potential, if it had enough more content, which require more paying players to foot the bill for that. Sadly I think this game needs more players, yet it only seems to have a fraction of what MWO seems to have, and its not as good as monetizing from that smaller base either.

[Edson Drake]

Hawken is alright. I like it's honesty to self and business model.

The problem is the gameplay itself. The graphics are awesome, but the game is fast-paced, like Armoured Core and I prefer Mechwarrior overall. I still play it once in a while, it's good fun.

[Anjian]

By the way, September 10 is the release of Hawken:Ascension. That would be like Hawken getting 1.0. There apparently is a new UI and a new map. Interesting this is getting launched 7 days before MWO gets 1.0, and not coincidetally, in September 24, is the release of Armored Core Verdict Day. What a great month for mech players.

I think what Hawken needs is more mech skins, so people can customize more and spend on it. It's too honest for a long term viable business model, and you need revenue to generate more content. Definitely more maps, better community management for creating and managing teams, clans, etc,. It also needs a single player storyline content for people to get immersed more with the universe, because right now i don't really know what the universe stands for.

[Scarcer]

In my opinion to the likeness... (Discussing MWO, Hawken, ACVD since they have been brought up...)

Hawken: Looks amazing, the teasers months before the public got their hands on the game were inspiring, and gave an impression of a game full of atmosphere and emotion. Upon public release, I was confronted with a twitch shooter, horrible, horrible... horribly designed maps. The graphics and fidelity were great, but lacked anything of emotional atmosphere to give the world, ingame lore to express, emotional association (music, storyline) made it hard to believe. More-so small details, like the ugly microwave chassis, and the fact that the rount cockpit didn't represent the square glass panel on the outside compounded that impression more. Also the grain filter is way too intense, and takes away from the clarity; it actually makes it confusing when in fights, what is he doing? Is he carrying missiles, guns, canon fodders?

Conclusion, there is nothing really interesting or beleivable to keep me interested as a lone pug player. Maybe if I had regulars to play with I'd get on again.

In contrast, MWO: More potential, obviously way bigger playerbase, more interesting to play even without the lore to back it. Development is incredibly slow; needs work yada-yada. Worth playing regularly. Crazy expensive and not worth investing fun funds into until we see some truly new features.

Armored Core Verdict Day: I'm ******* sad. I bought a ps3 after my 360 broke down beforehand, just so I can play ACV. FS claimed they were going back to their roots on the AC franchise. In the process they made AC's ugly as hell and completely ruined the games mechanics. I miss the days of AC 2, AC 3 + Expansions. Silent Line has the best story of them all, hands down. FromSoftware can kiss my ex-f4nboy ***. It chokes me that they chose to expand on ACV. Cheap, no more iconic figures, no incredibly amazing CGI that makes big time producers pale in comparison...

The armored cores too now no longer apear to be rare extremely expensive incredible feets of engineering, but mass-produced hunks of metal with overly flashy movements and animations.

Edited by Scarcer, 06 September 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[Anjian]

I quite enjoy using ACV, more than previous Armored Cores to date. The controls are very smooth, intuitive, everything meant for the player to assure his victory. Its certainly much more impressive once you go online, take over maps, battle with other players, or play coop against some big titanic robots. The last part is unique, because this is the first time you have a mech game that allows for a four man coop party to fight against some real big bad *** maps or bosses (like they can kill you in one shot). I certainly have no problem producing some really good looking mechs in ACV, just that they seem quite a bit overdetailed and way to go modular graphics (mechs bristling with tons of shoulder and back equipment).

The community system in ACV is one to behold, like being able to send congratulatory messages to all the team players, send recruitment messages, being able to review games from a map mode, so you check the performance of your teammates and lone wolves, and that is very helpful in discovering prospective new members for recruitment. The community system has superb support for clan play, letting them conquer areas in a persistant map. The customization is amazing, it lets you upload all sorts of pictures and logos to decorate your mechs. Going online, you see mechs pasted with anime logos.

By far, ACV is the best Armored Core to date, from an online gaming perspective. ACVD takes it one step further.

In terms of single player story play, ACV isn't that bad, but its nothing close to AC4A. I feel that is the best single player mech game I have ever played.

In a way, ACV and ACVD is going where the MW4 Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries series have went; the single player is increasingly becoming a training and launch pad for the online experience.

Verdict Day is particularly interesting because FromSoftware resurrected the persistant faction online system used in Chromehounds (yes they made that too) and incorporated that into the world of Armored Core.

AC fans outside of Japan are not happy about the continuous reboot of the franchise with every generation, sort of like what Final Fantasy does with each universe and what the Gundam series does with each new TV show. Though fans in Japan are used with this kind of creative reboots, as it is common with anime and game series. The AC Third Generation universe (AC3, Silent Line, Nexus, Nine Breaker), seems to have the best storyline and universe development.

All three games seems to have one singular problem and that is also shared with Chromehounds. Small, fast mechs, with a high firepower to weight ratio, and sniper capability, seems to rule the roost.

MWO: We all know how Spiders and previous to that the Raven 3L. Jenners, Commandos and Cicadas can be quite a threat too.

Hawken: I think the nastiest mechs there are the Class A light ones, in particular the Reaper (sniper light), Beserker (brawling light), Infiltrator (skirmishing light) and Scout (brawling light).

Armored Core V: People like to craft the mechs with the lightest parts, for the maximum mobility, then stuff them with big sniper rifles.

Chromehounds: People like to craft spindly, fast running mechs, then stuff them with as much cannons as possible.

A particular note about Hawken that parallels that in MWO. When both games are trying to improve T2K (Time2Kill) numbes on the mechs, MWO did a x2 on armor. This actually favored assault and heavy play because these mechs gained the most HP. Hawken on the other hand, did an arithmatic progression. They added +50 hp on all mechs instead. That benefited heavy (Type C) mechs the least and the most with Type A (lights).

Edited by Anjian, 06 September 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[GoManGo]

Its interesting the MODs deleted my topic on Hawken because it is becoming a much better game than MWO and there scared when players talk about the comparison of the two games. MWO MODS= this=

[Scarcer]

Anjian, on 06 September 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

I quite enjoy using ACV, more than previous Armored Cores to date. The controls are very smooth, intuitive, everything meant for the player to assure his victory. Its certainly much more impressive once you go online, take over maps, battle with other players, or play coop against some big titanic robots. The last part is unique, because this is the first time you have a mech game that allows for a four man coop party to fight against some real big bad *** maps or bosses (like they can kill you in one shot). I certainly have no problem producing some really good looking mechs in ACV, just that they seem quite a bit overdetailed and way to go modular graphics (mechs bristling with tons of shoulder and back equipment).

Mostly re-addressing ACV, I'm quite familiar with FROMSOFTWARE. Every few years they refresh the game with the next progression in number. The mistake with ACV is they changed what the Armored Core was about, and how the mechanics worked, then switched their attention from producing interesting campaigns, to producing an incredibly elaborate multi-player system; then spend a few resources on a poorly executed story with recycled missions.

Two major changes to the franchise is hard to take in; and being an extremely niche franchise doesn't hold up very well, where in such a case you should really be making half steps.

For years AC generated sales based on great game-play and a believable emotional story that was epic in the sense of depth and impact; not constantly fighting unorthodox weapons every third mission when reality of the past AC's were the marble pinned on top of the technological pyramid with MT's being the common mass-produced choice in war. But that's me being nitpicky about where AC's belong in the franchise.


Again, the niche fanbase was build on single player, and compelling game-play; everyone wanted to battle online, and once we got the technology commonplace to allow it; it took a few years for FS to get their **** together and release a title with proper online play (AC4). Graphics were good, the art was fabulous, gameplay took half a step in a different direction but it still felt like AC. A short meh story, few parts, but understandable for their first current-gen release. But online was a ghost-town.

AC4A improved upon the previous game, and also introduced online campaign. Great game, but again, the online was a ghost town.

ACV, they took a whole step in gameplay, and a whole step change to online. The gameplay experience alienated a lot of fans; lots of complaints. The online experience was still a ghost town. The community held on a little longer, but it died pretty quick. The same people fighting and dominating regions over and over again; it became pretty pointless. The 'epic' co-op battles were a nice touch though, and they did a good job with co-op campaign.

ACVD, as usual, there will be a slightly more polished campaign, nearly twice as many parts, and improvements to the online system, perhaps retain the community an extra couple months longer, probably having an equal amount of sales. I bet it will be due to a loss of core fans (who bought ACV on impulse, and won't purchase ACVD) and covered in the difference of new players purchasing the franchise for the first time. Keeping this in mind though, any sales expected to happen through-out the next two seasons may be cut short due to next-gen releases.

My personal verdict how ever is that the gameplay killed it for me, and that online play was only to compliment the over-all experience. My machine is squat and square, mass-produced by the tens of thousands of parts, with animations that give it transformer like element. It can't fly, but can somehow jump up 90% angles. I'd like my cutting edge chassis back, assembled by premium parts, that small militias backed with MT's can't afford to buy into brand new. They've taken away the meaning and emotion from the game, and filled the void with action in quantity.


Somehow if good or bad FROMSOFTWARE in the past has been incredibly good at projecting the emotion and environment for the player, through CGI, or story. Are you on Mars in a world without mother earths communication? Stuck underground in a post-apocalyptic word, to come across access to a renewed surface at the end of your struggle? Are you a merc/Raven making your place at the peak of an era? Or are you among the last warn down aged band of remaining Mercs/Ravens with few jobs, thinning numbers and pushed to a last stand with only hours to go? My favorite is here: http://en.wikipedia....e:_Armored_Core

And from a different game:


If your truly an AC fan, regardless of wether you like ACV or not, you can't help but miss what this franchise has left behind.
I'll step down now.

Edited by Scarcer, 06 September 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[Anjian]

GoManGo, on 06 September 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Its interesting the MODs deleted my topic on Hawken because it is becoming a much better game than MWO and there scared when players talk about the comparison of the two games. MWO MODS= this=

Back in May, when I played Hawken, it was definitely a better game. In September however, its still basically the same game, but with Hawken Awakening to be launched on September 10, which might add a new map, UI improvements, and other refinements. In the meantime however, MWO had a lot more changes, content additions, tweaks and so on, that the amount of additions and changes feels like a jungle while Hawken's is a desert.

Even though some of PGI's actions might be deemed controversial, they seem to be at least *trying*, and controversy is still miles better than *apathy* which is what I feel Meteor's support for Hawken appears to be.

Still I would like to give Hawken Ascension a shot and reserve judgement till then. Hopefully Ascension will turn things around.

[Loc Nar]

Amazes me that Hawken can hold any fascination whatsoever for MW fans. The movement is absolutely atrocious -straight up generic FPS controls. This alone makes the game generic as f***.

I really *wanted to love Hawken. Learned about the project in 2008 and spent years chasing updates while chomping at the bit to finally have a good excuse to build a mechpit. One day while looking for Hawken updates I discovered MWO, which is a good thing cause it came out first so I made a cockpit for MWO instead. Fast forward to Hawken finally becoming publicly playable (12/12/12) and nothing could prepare me for the disappoint.

I've built not one, but two cockpits for MWO, that house my custom zero-order control zenith/azimuth joystick, (works like an effin champ, but req an article to explain why it works, Controls Demystified(?) ) and it's really fun to drive mechs with. Since Hawken is based around typical shooter controls (needs x-axis of mouse for directional steering... FAIL), it's a nightmare to drive with my hardware however and I simply do not play anything kbm, so holds my attention for very short periods.

Add to this that Hawken also uses standard shooter healthbar, and you end up with what is literally a generic shooter in mech skins. It's visually satisfying, but I find the whole experience to be severely lacking. I have a freshly patched version of the client on my puter, and occasionally jump in with high hopes that they have changed anything meaningful, but alas it's still a shooter in mech skins.

Their new huge update/revamp looks fantastic, but twice nothing is still nothing and there are no planned changes to controls or healthbar (the things that make it a generic shooter stuck in mediocrity)... and it will remain a generic shooter in mech skins. I haven't even touched on the gameplay, but it's a moot point for me cause I can't stand the underlying mechanics of first person shooters. Literally call of duty with mechs, and unfortunately the upcoming Titanfall title looks to be more of the same. Oh wells...

[Anjian]

Scarcer, on 06 September 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Mostly re-addressing ACV, I'm quite familiar with FROMSOFTWARE. Every few years they refresh the game with the next progression in number. The mistake with ACV is they changed what the Armored Core was about, and how the mechanics worked, then switched their attention from producing interesting campaigns, to producing an incredibly elaborate multi-player system; then spend a few resources on a poorly executed story with recycled missions. Two major changes to the franchise is hard to take in; and being an extremely niche franchise doesn't hold up very well, where in such a case you should really be making half steps. For years AC generated sales based on great game-play and a believable emotional story that was epic in the sense of depth and impact; not constantly fighting unorthodox weapons every third mission when reality of the past AC's were the marble pinned on top of the technological pyramid with MT's being the common mass-produced choice in war. But that's me being nitpicky about where AC's belong in the franchise. Again, the niche fanbase was build on single player, and compelling game-play; everyone wanted to battle online, and once we got the technology commonplace to allow it; it took a few years for FS to get their **** together and release a title with proper online play (AC4). Graphics were good, the art was fabulous, gameplay took half a step in a different direction but it still felt like AC. A short meh story, few parts, but understandable for their first current-gen release. But online was a ghost-town. AC4A improved upon the previous game, and also introduced online campaign. Great game, but again, the online was a ghost town. ACV, they took a whole step in gameplay, and a whole step change to online. The gameplay experience alienated a lot of fans; lots of complaints. The online experience was still a ghost town. The community held on a little longer, but it died pretty quick. The same people fighting and dominating regions over and over again; it became pretty pointless. The 'epic' co-op battles were a nice touch though, and they did a good job with co-op campaign. ACVD, as usual, there will be a slightly more polished campaign, nearly twice as many parts, and improvements to the online system, perhaps retain the community an extra couple months longer, probably having an equal amount of sales. I bet it will be due to a loss of core fans (who bought ACV on impulse, and won't purchase ACVD) and covered in the difference of new players purchasing the franchise for the first time. Keeping this in mind though, any sales expected to happen through-out the next two seasons may be cut short due to next-gen releases. My personal verdict how ever is that the gameplay killed it for me, and that online play was only to compliment the over-all experience. My machine is squat and square, mass-produced by the tens of thousands of parts, with animations that give it transformer like element. It can't fly, but can somehow jump up 90% angles. I'd like my cutting edge chassis back, assembled by premium parts, that small militias backed with MT's can't afford to buy into brand new. They've taken away the meaning and emotion from the game, and filled the void with action in quantity. Somehow if good or bad FROMSOFTWARE in the past has been incredibly good at projecting the emotion and environment for the player, through CGI, or story. Are you on Mars in a world without mother earths communication? Stuck underground in a post-apocalyptic word, to come across access to a renewed surface at the end of your struggle? Are you a merc/Raven making your place at the peak of an era? Or are you among the last warn down aged band of remaining Mercs/Ravens with few jobs, thinning numbers and pushed to a last stand with only hours to go? My favorite is here: http://en.wikipedia....e:_Armored_Core And from a different game: If your truly an AC fan, regardless of wether you like ACV or not, you can't help but miss what this franchise has left behind. I'll step down now.

For one thing, I played ACV online for many months, never had problems joining as a mercenary for different groups and continuously flooded with offers. I am quite eager to join the monster coop missions, and help people with their story and campaign missions. I played in the PS3 servers, not sure what is the population on the XBox servers. I think one problem is that the servers are basically divided between Japan (mostly PS3), rest of the world (PS3) and rest of the world (360). Fragmenting the user base can turn the online game with a resemblence of a ghost town to some others. I will say that this appears to be fairly successful in Japan; AC and FromSoft has graduated from a small publisher like Agetec, to a bigger one, SEGA, to an even bigger one, Namco Bandai. If ACV wasn't, Namco Bandai won't have given the green light for Verdict Day.

The elite premium cutting edge chassis thing is hard to understand, kind of like Gundam, and I honestly don't care about that in any of the mech franchises I have played (Mechwarrior, Heavy Gear, Hawken, Armored Core, Chromehounds). I feel that superpowered cutting edge chassis annoy the heck out of realism --- in AC4, a single AC is blowing up entire naval fleets, including carriers in one shot, but in ACV, four ACs have a difficult time taking out an Aegis class cruiser. Another thing is that Armored Core has become too aerial. The original and first Armored Core isn't about mechs flying, and that is where ACV wants to return at.



I like the grit about ACV, that we have managed to build mechs out of parts that are salvaged, which you will note in in the ACV videos. The helicopters flying overhead, the bombers dropping bombs (ACVD), the desert uniforms, add something unique to a mech franchise--- social commentary about the increasing militarization of our world. It is a theme that began with Chromehounds, which portrayed in an alternative world, mech combat on a very plausible poltiical scenario, the political tension in the Caucasus region south of Russia (Azerbajian, Georgia, Turkey).





Now Chromehounds, it doesn't have much of a single player campaign. It's not as science fiction as the other mech franchises, yet this game, in my opinion, and for so many others, might be the finest mech game ever made. There is so many reasons for that, which I won't elaborate here (CH makes MWO look like a vastly incomplete project), but one of CH's highlights is a ground breaking persistant online world where 3 factions fight it out, and victories in the map allows one faction to control that hex, out of what appears to be a multitude of maps and hexes. The game is made to facilitate clan/guild play, and squads align to one or the other factions. It is certainly rewarding after many weeks of battles, to have your squad, and others in the same faction, finally reach the capital city of the opposing faction, setting the stage for many nights of intense city battles, against defending squads, either to have your siege broken or have the city captured and the entire enemy faction collapse.

This is really what mech combat should be --- an ongoing persistant war, where victories count in the gain or loss of territory. The game was pretty active from 2006 to 2009, when SEGA, in their eternal mismanagement, closed down the servers to anyone's chagrin. And it appears SEGA will have no more mech games. But certainly it didn't last like a couple of months, more like years.

But people hope that Chromehounds 2 will ever be made, but those hopes have become dim. FromSoftware returned back to Armored Core and found success in Dark Souls.

But then suddenly we have Verdict Day as the incoming sequel to Armored Core V. i always felt that the first game in a new generation doesn't feel complete, and the next turns out to be better. But lo and behold, when news about the persistant 3 faction system is going to be used for ACVD as its online game format, we know, this is the same system that was used in Chromehounds. Just that, instead of Hounds, we are using ACs. This will be a vast improvement from the online system used on ACV. Slightly polished --- hell no. This is what the system should have been in the first place.

Multiplayer has been the future for the mech franchises no matter what. The fact that Hawken and MWO are pure multiplayer is just one of many. I played far more time, many months on the multiplayer aspect of Heavy Gear 2, as opposed to its single player campaign, and literally skipped the single player for the Mechwarrior 4 series, which I played for some years. No matter how a cool storyline mission can be, the ultimate challenge and opponent, is another human in that mech.

There are other things that makes the online system far from "slightly polished".

10 man vs. 10 man squads battles compared to the previous 4 vs. 4 (Chromehounds was 6 vs 6).
56 maps.
The ability to fill remaining squad seats with AI mechs (I have not seen that ability since Mechwarrior 4, but this is also applied in multiplayer combat).

[Mister Blastman]

GoManGo, on 06 September 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Its interesting the MODs deleted my topic on Hawken because it is becoming a much better game than MWO and there scared when players talk about the comparison of the two games.

Hawken sucks.

[Fabe]

Mister Blastman, on 12 September 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Hawken sucks.

Yet it now has a better tutorial then this game.

[Majorfatboy]

I downloaded hawken Wednesday night, it ain't a bad game. It's stable, graphics and audio are great, it's got built-in voip, there's an offline team deathmatch mode with bots for practice, a tutorial, it runs silky smooth even with maxed settings, and it can be a lot of fun. It's not mechwarrior, but then again, pgi's game ain't really mechwarrior either at this point, so who cares?
I've never been a fan of respawning and healing, and in general I stink at this "twitch shooter" stuff, but then again I'm a weird little soandso.