497 replies to this topic

[Cpt Leprechaun]

Drexorn, on 05 March 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I don't think these 3 new consumables are p2w. It's more like p2(get a small advantage). I just don't like the idea about consumables at all - cbill or MC. I'd much rather slot artillery strike, as a 6mill cbill module (maybe in coordination with command console, c3, etc..), that can be used once per match.

I understand the need for a money sink, but do you honestly think the mc-only versions of these are going to be that popular? I freely spend spend mc on premium time, mech bays, and a few hero mechs. I'm cheap though, and won't even spend mc on paint schemes, let alone a consumable.

I think these mc-only consumables are not going to sell well at all.

pay to (get a small advantage) is P2W my friend doesn't matter how big the advantage is if you are getting one by paying for something it is P2W. ESPECIALLY when these items are going to completely nullify the ability for fair competitive gaming. . .

[Fut]

Zhang, on 04 March 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Your post still contains an inherent problem with consumables. They've either got to be so cheap as for the price to be pretty much irrelevant, or they're going to be P2W anyhow. You give the 100k c-bill example. That's not too horrid, providing you usually don't use the consumable and you're usually winning and making a good amount of money. But we don't know the price. But, I'm not going to bother debating on the merits of it being P2W if the c-bill cost is unsustainable while it's still much more obviously P2W for all the other reasons Protection has discussed. Just saying that they've got more ways to fail than the ways they've already obviously failed to balance them properly.

Up until now I've been trying to stay out of this whole debate. On one hand I think that people need to relax and see how things play out - the implied bonuses that will be MC only aren't really that big of an advantage over the bonuses that can be purchased with C-Bills; but on the other hand I can see how this trend could get out of hand and really turn some features into P2W.

However, this is ridiculous. So you're not only saying that people should be able to purchase everything in the game with C-Bills, but you also think that the cost should be crazy low?! This is nonsense. Should the game just hand you everything possible as soon as you sign up for an account?

Modules are supposed to be end-game gear for people who've Mastered their 'Mechs. Take a look at some of the people who've already done this - they're sitting around with millions of C-Bills collecting dust.
Modules should be expensive, even if they're consumable.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

ciller, on 05 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

How are they not making money already? They have nearly a half million forum subscribers alone, do they really need to milk the cow that much that they, in effect, are forcing us to pay to be competitive? I don't like the mechanic at all, I don't like their implementation of said bad mechanic, and I do not like what it does to the competitive scene. GET RID OF THIS IMPLEMENTATION.

All 3 tiers should cost CBill and/or MC if you plan on keeping this at all. It should also be a one time purchase like other modules, allowing a one time use in each match and be appropriately expensive cbill wise to justify such.

As it stands it seems like PGI doesn't care about the fans, game balance, or the competitive scene but rather just interested in as much money as they can milk from us in as short a period of time as possible. Down this road leads ruination.

I agree with this

[Wip3ou7]

I think getting a 20% flush for free is better than getting a 35% flush for $$$.
Just my opinion.
Then again I don't mind being the underdog.
It makes victory so much sweeter.

[Rhiawhyn Zerinth]

This is likely going to get lost in the flood of posts, however I feel like I should at least make my admittedly small voice heard.

I'm done.


I've dealt with ECM and come up with ways to counter it using skill and various silly tactics which work fairly well, I've USED ecm on a light mech to support a team rather then cheese to win. I've fought splatcats and srm cats, found ways to beat them and never had too much of a problem unless I was being stupid. The game has problems, which all games have balance issues of some kind, however minor. It's what makes it fun, actually. One thing I cannot tolerate and will not tolerate is pay to win. This is blatant, you can try to argue it away or make sense of it, but it's just that, senseless power grabs for $ and ONLY $. the hero mechs were shady but at least you could get the 'same' mech variant or do the same thing with a different mech...

Actually, I don't even know why I'm posting this, it's just going to be pointed and laughed at, so I'm stopping here. Been fun guys, to those I've killed and been killed, thanks for the challenge.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Put plainly no.

One time use modules that have real combat effects are not welcome. Remember, that was the justification for R&R's removal, the free players wouldn't be able to keep up with the premium accounts.

This is the same thing magnified, if you want peak preformance, pay up! EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

The simple fact that the MC mods are a slot less than the non-MC mods is just icing.

Seriously there are three mechs that can hold 4 modules. Raven -3L Atlas D-DC and Yen Lo.

....most of the stalkers only have one, a number of other mechs, Awesome comes to mind....also only have a single slot, two mastered out.

Yen Lo Wang just became something of a beast, stock it can fit all three modules....if you spring for the T3s, low on firepower HUGE on REAL MONEY firepower...all without any change in combat effectiveness.

Your LRM stalkers and Cats just took a hit, they can't call airstrikes and artillery AND use the two modules they need to be combat effective.

I guess I missed wherever it stated that we would have to pay for the modules over and over and over again. My interpretation was pay for the module unlock via GXP once, pay for each module you use with iether currency as applicable, and assign a hotkey to it or whatever via settings, and then use it once in a match. If it's LITERALLY a consumable then that'd be absurd, but I guess my long experience with D&D may have left me making an assumption here that was innacurate. Still, I think they way I read it is the common sense path, one would hope that's how they work.

If not, well, it's PGI / IGP, so what else should I expect.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

T1= amount of C-bill or amount of MC
T2= amount of C-bill or amount of MC
T3= amount of C-bill or amount of MC

really that hard ?

[Tarman]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

This echoes some of my suspicions as well. It's been said often, and repeated here in this htread, Developer / Publisher relations are rarely anything other than some form of "adversarial". Could PGI do better with this had they not had to deal with IGP? Well we will never know that now. Frankly, at this point, if - IF - MW:O should fail, I hope that someone can grab the IP (I would if I could faster than anyone could say YOINK) and then crowdfund it.

While crowdfunding is problematic, let's face it, it has one very, VERY clear advantage - it does not come with investors and the adversarial relationship that so often poisons good ideas, good companies, and good people.

Wasteland sequel. A game from the past that people have wanted to make and buy a sequel to since forever, that got railroaded so hard in so many ways by suits that it literally turned into another game franchise. Which also got railroaded pretty hard at times. Now finally being made by people who <3 it, courtesy of monies supplied by people who want to play it.

It still could end up being a terrible game that sucks for all time but that will rest squarely on the shoulders of the people actually creating the game.

[Yokaiko]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 March 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

I guess I missed wherever it stated that we would have to pay for the modules over and over and over again. My interpretation was pay for the module unlock via GXP once, pay for each module you use with iether currency as applicable, and assign a hotkey to it or whatever via settings, and then use it once in a match. If it's LITERALLY a consumable then that'd be absurd, but I guess my long experience with D&D may have left me making an assumption here that was innacurate. Still, I think they way I read it is the common sense path, one would hope that's how they work.

If not, well, it's PGI / IGP, so what else should I expect.

http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

Quote

Summary:
The C-Bill and MC purchased coolant flushes with both max out at 35%

The C-Bill version of coolant flushes will allow 2 uses during a match. (One cools 15%, the other cools 20%)
The C-Bill version of coolant flushes will required 2 module slots to cool 35%, whereas the MC version will only require 1 module slot.

Both C-Bill and MC versions of coolant flush must be repurchased between rounds if used in a match
Note: The values above are subject to tuning pending further gameplay testing.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Rhiawhyn Zerinth, on 05 March 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

This is likely going to get lost in the flood of posts, however I feel like I should at least make my admittedly small voice heard.

I'm done.


I've dealt with ECM and come up with ways to counter it using skill and various silly tactics which work fairly well, I've USED ecm on a light mech to support a team rather then cheese to win. I've fought splatcats and srm cats, found ways to beat them and never had too much of a problem unless I was being stupid. The game has problems, which all games have balance issues of some kind, however minor. It's what makes it fun, actually. One thing I cannot tolerate and will not tolerate is pay to win. This is blatant, you can try to argue it away or make sense of it, but it's just that, senseless power grabs for $ and ONLY $. the hero mechs were shady but at least you could get the 'same' mech variant or do the same thing with a different mech...

Actually, I don't even know why I'm posting this, it's just going to be pointed and laughed at, so I'm stopping here. Been fun guys, to those I've killed and been killed, thanks for the challenge.

For what it's worth, if you want to leave and make a statement to PGI, ask Garth and Brian, etc, via PM how to go about getting a refund for your Legendary Package, explain why, etc. They'll listen to people not buying stuff, but having to cough up money instead speaks that much more loudly.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

Wip3ou7, on 05 March 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

I think getting a 20% flush for free is better than getting a 35% flush for $$$.
Just my opinion.
Then again I don't mind being the underdog.
It makes victory so much sweeter.

implying that something you have to buy, but don't want to, makes you an underdog instantly creates an impossibility for competitive Tournament play. Which is what PGI/IGP should be looking at as their end game. not this. NEVER this

[Drexorn]

Wip3ou7, on 05 March 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

I think getting a 20% flush for free is better than getting a 35% flush for $$$.
Just my opinion.
Then again I don't mind being the underdog.
It makes victory so much sweeter.

Or you can just wait 5 seconds and get the same effect without flushing your coolant

[liku]

soooo sooo tired about all the Pay to Win rants...

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Yokaiko, on 05 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Both C-Bill and MC versions of coolant flush must be repurchased between rounds if used in a match

Oh. Well. SHIIT... Yeah. Why am I not surprised? Thanks for pointing that out to me, by the way. <sigh>

[ciller]

Their "tuning" better mean "complete overhaul". I'm just saying..

[NKAc Street]

I have considered spending more money on mc, buying paint and maybe cockpit items, I have also requested mc as a gift someone could purchase for me. If this becomes a pay 2 win game, that ends.

[Kdogg788]

You people have obviously not played a true pay2win MMO like Evony or Gladiatus. It is amusing to watch.

-k

[deranda]

Wow, P2W in MW:O, didn't expect to see something like that ever...honestly. Very disappointing.

I am financially done with this game, if this goes live. Just wanted to throw that in for PGI to read.

[Josef Nader]

Drexorn, on 05 March 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Or you can just wait 5 seconds and get the same effect without flushing your coolant

Meanwhile, the other guy -doesn't- have to wait 5 seconds, and he blows you away the instant his weapons cool down without giving you a chance to cool off.

Grats, he just paid to win with an advantage you can't match without paying money.

I've already given PGI several hundred dollars. I love throwing money at games I enjoy, because I consider it a much better investment to pay for a game I know I like over buying new ones all the time. PGI doesn't get one red cent from me as long as this garbage is in the game, plain and simple. I'd rather throw more money at Valve.

Edited by Josef Nader, 05 March 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Kdogg788, on 05 March 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

You people have obviously not played a true pay2win MMO like Evony or Gladiatus. It is amusing to watch.

-k

Ok, but by the same token, all games that don't start out as Pay to Win started out small and reasonable, and went downhill from there. So maybe you're talking about a full grown tree vs a sapling? I mean I get it, and I can't say I agree or disagree, no experience with either of those so I can't say. Just offering that thought is all.