37 replies to this topic

[John MatriX82]

Make MC tier 3 consumables to require 2 modules slots each. Problem solved.

No more

F2P:
coolant1
coolant 2
airstrike 2

vs

MC:
coolant 3
Airstrike 3
Artillery 3

The latter is extremely advantaged, especially when talking about Community Warfare and 8 man premades (which will be CW base).

[Shismar]

Zaptruder, on 05 March 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Make them purchasable with C-Bills only.

Sell CBill packs for MC. Profit. Balance. Hoo-ray.

Exactly.

PGI again makes the mistake to have MC exclusive items. That always has the taste of P2W, even if the advantage is really minor, as in this case. This does not only go for the proposed consumables, the hero mech variants also need to be available for CBills. Minus the paint job and perks, of course, that is what the MC is for if they really have to have MC only stuff.

[p4r4g0n]

So far the only approach I could think off in keeping with the general idea of using modules was to make the modules available for both C-Bills and MC BUT create a difference in the way the modules are charged / re-charged i.e.

1. With C-Bills, you can only buy 1 charge / re-charge at a time i.e. you have to do this after each match.
2. With MC, you can buy a pack of charges / re-charges that auto-refill the modules for you.

Lame I know but in the absence of a PvE element, there aren't a heck of a lot of options that do not make MC only consumables pay to win.

[Waladil]

Fut, on 05 March 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Hmm. An infinite amount of Consumable-Module slots? That seems sort of dangerous, no?
I mean, if there's no limit to these slots, somebody with a shitload of MC or C-Bux could load up with hundreds of Air Strikes and Coolant Flushes. These consumables won't be game breaking, unless people are able to carry shocking amounts of them.

The assumption I made here (and this should have been more clear) is that you could have one one per consumable, in addition to the already-stated restrictions on not stacking T1/2 with T3. So you couldn't have fifty T1 coolant flushes, for example, but you could have one of each of: T1/T2 coolant flush, T1/T2 airstrike, T1/T2 artillery, etc. There is some potential for P2W here, I'll admit, if you're able to afford to purchase a full set of all consumables for each battle. Hope I made that clear, now.

WolvesX, on 05 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

I don't support PAY-TO-WIN!

This is the exact kind of not-useful thing I'm talking about. There's nothing there, just you complaining.

[Kooler]

I would like to see the consumables implmented as PGI stated , then I would like to see PGI open a discussion thread regarding the patch where a developer has a running dialogue and takes feedback from the community (the MWO community not reddit).

I would actually like this to happen after every patch.

[Sol Fin]

Any consumables that instantly boost the efficiency of your mech are bad and could influence gameplay greatly. So don't think any of such kind should exist. Including coolant flush. Artillery strikes are not directly influencing your own mech, so by different means could be brought to much more balanced state.

Edited by Sol Fin, 05 March 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Chrithu]

Easiest way:

Treat consumables the same way mechs are treated:

Wether you pay with MC or CBills you get the same version.

Make the CBill price high enough and the MC price low enough to have people consider the purchase. Without going overboard with the CBill price (like taking >= 3/4 of the average income per match, that would be clearly too much wouldn't it?)

[Kyrie]

All profitable elements from World of Tanks must appear in MWO. It is known.

/sigh.

[GhostFacedNinja]

Just let people buy all the tiers with C-Bills or MC. Even if it costs a lot of C-Bills per item it would be fair. They would also make plenty of money as there will always be people wanting to short cut, plus it'd be more efficient in the long run to use real money.

If they bring it in as it is being stated all over these forums they will actually lose money. People will be so disgusted with them lots and lots will quit. A lot of newer players they gain will also quit when they realise what a farce it is. So they will lose massive sales of MC across the board. Then the game will die, and they will have to get new jobs.

[SI The Joker]

My only concern is the coolant flush module.

The other modules had been under discussion since closed beta. We knew we were getting artillery and things like that.

Coolant flush though - There were a large number of posts about it pre-closed beta and even during closed beta in which PGI stated that the coolant flush was an idea they had - and dropped. Why this has changed is anyone's guess. I'd love to see a command chair post explaining that reasoning. (Please?)

I'm OK with the other announced consumables, it's coolant flush that bothers me and that's mostly because of the broke-down-arsed mechanic that was implemented in previous titles.

I won't sit here and say "OMG the game will die!" because it won't. I will however stand up and question the reasoning (and ask for ALOT more detail) behind the planned intentions for the coolant flush module.

I think that most folks are up in arms over coolant flush moreso than being up in arms over arty strikes or whatever else.

[Johnny Morgan]

don't buy the MC based ones, only buy the cbill onces.

If they are not selling, they will change them. It's silly not to make them available for large amounts of cbills or cheap MC, any and all of the levels/modules.

It doesn't matter if they are cbills are MC used, it only matters that you can access them with either.

People will take the path of least resistance, i.e. don't have the cbills and dropping in an 8man, sure i'll pay 10-25 MC for some consumables because I need them quick.

[Signal27]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

LET'S TALK ABOUT SANE WAYS TO MAKE CONSUMABLES FAIR.

Arguments about paying real money for the best grade of consumables aside, I would have thought all players having equal access to all consumables would have made things fair enough.

Johnny Morgan, on 05 March 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

don't buy the MC based ones, only buy the cbill onces.

If they are not selling, they will change them. It's silly not to make them available for large amounts of cbills or cheap MC, any and all of the levels/modules.

What this guy said. Because that's exactly what happened with "gold ammo" over in World of Tanks: They made "gold ammo" purchasable with the credits you earn by playing (for free, in other words).

[Waladil]

Signal27, on 05 March 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Arguments about paying real money for the best grade of consumables aside, I would have thought all players having equal access to all consumables would have made things fair enough.

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

2.) Maintain incentive to purchase the MC versions (gotta pay the code-monkeys somehow).

There needs to be some good reason to spend your MC. No MC is desired, no MC is bought. No MC is bought, employees aren't paid. Employees aren't paid, MWO doesn't get made.

Talking about making the only paid content be purely appearance-based is well and good, but that clearly isn't bringing in the money that needs to be brought in.

Finding a way to make MC-only things worthy of being purchased but not clearly better is a tightrope that needs to be crossed with great care. They're trying with the Hero 'Mechs, finding hardpoint configurations that are unique but not obviously P2W. (The YLW doesn't have 4 ballistic, 3 missile, and 8 energy slots, last I checked.) In the same vein, we want to find a way to manage these consumables that doesn't give people paying MC an obvious advantage, but we also want to arrange it so there's a good reason to spend your real money.

Edited by Waladil, 05 March 2013 - 06:42 AM.

[Waladil]

Saw this in another thread and wanted to include it + a variation on it here, because it's a good idea:

Kaeseblock, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

If they implement consumables the way they announced it (rebuy them after every use) consumables really are a waste of money. There is simply no reason to get them for casual play.

Right now I can only think of one way to implement them in a useful manner, and that's quite similar to the camo-pattern sale-system.


Make two different types of each consumable:

1.) cheap 1x use consumable:
- rebuy after each use
- perfect to test the different consumables

2.) expensive auto-restocking consumable
- restocks automatically after each match for no additional costs
- if you like a certain consumable, go and grind to get the nice permanent version


Concerning payment:
All consumables (that means all levels) should be available for C-Bills AND MC.
This way everybody who doesn't have the time to grind C-Bills ( due to work / family /...) can invest some cash to get his favorite item.
This way stupid pay-to-win situations will never occur.

And don't misunderstand me: If this game ever tends towards pay-to-win I'll stop playing immediately!

That's a good idea. I like it. I have an alternate way that also might work out:


All consumables are purchasable for C-Bills. The reusable versions that auto-restock for free are MC-only.

[p4r4g0n]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

-snip-
All consumables are purchasable for C-Bills. The reusable versions that auto-restock for free are MC-only.

Thought about free auto-restock for MC only but I think PGI or IGP or whoever is pushing this wants a recurring revenue stream. Hence, my earlier post about MC purchased charges / re-charges for modules being in packs and auto-recharging as opposed to single charge / re-charge CB purchased ones that need to be manually loaded in mechbay.

[skullman86]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2001133

What I would like to see.

[Adrian Steel]

Waladil, on 05 March 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

I wanted to start this thread for SANE, RATIONAL discussion

It's the mechpocalypse; you're asking for sanity?

I'm stocking up on guns, food and ammo.

[Asmosis]

dont really care much about the flush since its only 35%, not 100%. Still either going to kill you before you get to use it or die myself.

I do think making MC gear simply better than regular gear (based on crit slot allocation) is a very bad move, and does not bode well for clan tech (since the MC coolant would be the equiv of clan coolant if it existed).

F2P MOTTO:

pay for convienience, not for advantage.

follow that one rule, and your playbase will be golden. ignore it the free players get disgruntled and leave. without that bulk playerbase, paying players get limited matchups get bored and leave. byebye game.

Edited by Asmosis, 05 March 2013 - 09:20 PM.