68 replies to this topic

[phanteh]

Another awesome patch.

Love you guys!

[boobooo42]

Assist are broken, had a few matches where I got red hit boxes and no assist score.

[KKRonkka]

Very nice patch, interesting to see if state rewind works but for ballistics (Gauss rifle especially) lag seems a bit more highlighted since lasers seem to be ok lagwise. 150ms ping makes it horrible to use due delay (about 1 second!) between clicking fire and bullet actually leaving the barrel.

And I really, really hope to see a change to game modes since there'll be more bigger maps... 15 minutes and capping is a joke.

Edited by KKRonkka, 06 March 2013 - 02:13 PM.

[sarkun]

The state rewind thing.

OMG.

BEST THING EVER.

Suddenly I have no problems removing components from enemy mechs. Damage goes right were I shoot. Lights die. I've seen a Founders Hunch take on two ravens 3L... and it took one down and forced the other to flee. This is beyond awesome.

Thank you.

Krzysztof z Bagien, on 05 March 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I was awarded 2 savior kills though I only killed one enemy in a match (one savior kill appeared when I scored an assist).

Edit: the same goes for defensive kills - they are also awarded upon assists.

I've seen this also.

[Blandtastic]

Glaring issue with game balance is ECM. The Raven was literally designed around the ECM module. [color="#0000ff"]http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven[/color] the same way the Warthog airframe was designed around its massive chain gun. It was such as massive and complex system that the Raven had to be designed around it.
Also, no variant of the Atlas [color="#0000ff"]http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Atlas_(BattleMech[/color]), a huge dominating powerful mech, mounts ECM. With the exception of the AS7 S2 or the AS7 K2, which are both post-jihad mechs that are at least 20 years away from fielding in the MWO timeline. Meanwhile, we have a seriously overpowered mech in the Atlas AS7 D-DC that is supposed to be a command and control mech and is instead a 100 ton ninja of death. Which is fun for the driver of the beast but forces everyone else into the same playstyle to counter this thing. Which makes the game kind of un-fun. PGI has moved away from apocryphal to the TT game universe to just making stuff up as they go along to fit the whims of its upper management. They do this at the expense of a rich, detailed game universe that I have loved since the '80s. Not to mention that going against the grain of the fiction and TT rules with impunity kind of breaks the game appeal. I want Battletech, not Heavy Gear II, Metal Storm or Gundam. PGI, if you absolutely must mount this on an Atlas, then for God's sake make it a K variant with an XL engine that can't be swapped out. It's called "balance". Look it up.
If it "works", then why is it every winning team, almost without exception, has at least one Raven 3L and most likely two or more Atlas D-DCs? Why is it winning teams almost always feature this component? Why is it the platforms that feature this platform are chosen almost without exception over other variants? Unless, of course, the player is grinding the mech, then discards the variants without it for the one with it. I would be very interesting to see the win/loss and kill/death stats from the PGI servers of the mechs and teams that mount ECM versus variants that do not. Interesting and revealing.
Why does the way it is working in this game completely nullify BAP and NARC? When the TT rules explicitly state that, while it can mask the signals for BAP, someone with BAP is aware they are being jammed? Why is it that you cannot achieve a lock-on with this equipment mounted at all, even in extremely close range? Why does it affect all the mechs under its umbrella, regardless of tonnage or engines? How on earth could this thing hide seismic waves from allied mechs? How can it jam lock on of other mechs? How can it prevent line of sight lock-ons, even at extremely close range? How can it prevent lock-on with thermal systems? How does it block magnetic sensing? How does it completely mask radar returns on an 80 foot wall of steel with a fusion engine? How can it do this with 8 mechs in a 180 meter Cloak of Invisibility, er, um, bubble of effect? Why is it this component is almost never destroyed, despite the fact that at its core it is a fancy computer mounted on a walking war machine getting hosed with all kinds of fire? Why is it that this system stacks so that counter ECM only affects one disruption ECM, while another one cancels out the counter?
I am getting really sick of 400 tons of mech being hidden under one component that only costs 1.5 tons and 2 critical slots and has no real downside. I am getting sick of the same tactics of ECM/SRM/Stalker/Atlas strike team being used almost without exception. I am sick of players thinking they are better than they are simply because their team mounts a component that makes all of them invisible without any downside. And I am completely tired of running thermal systems all the time on every map because it is the only way to play now with this thing running all the time on all maps with all teams. Kind of a waste of really excellent artwork and terrain models. If I was a freelance artist working for PGI, I would be pissed that the kickass commercial art I made for the game is never being seen by anyone.
Yes, I know that TAG and PPC nullifies it. Good luck hitting a Raven 3L running at 140+ KPH with PPC. Especially with server lagtime. Good luck keeping TAG on an enemy mech during an intense furball. Good luck getting either of these tactics to work at 1200 meter range of missile engagement. Good luck taking out the three or four Atli that are coming over the ridgeline into your base through a cave under a sooper-dooper Cloak of Invisibility. Good luck countering all 8 players on an opposing team hiding in one grid square that are invisible until they are within range of their combined 24-40 SRM launchers. Oh, and after the patch now I am seeing a lot of LRM armed Atlas AS7 D-DC missile boats with ECM using TAG to hose a mech to death before anyone even knows they are there. Exploit much, people?
My problem isn't that it "works" and is "fine". My problem is that it it "works" entirely too well and is unbalancing. It completely alters the way the game is played, and not in a good way. Most games now revolve around countering ECM instead of using tactics to fire and move to capture and hold an objective. The game is all about one component. Am I seriously the only one who sees a problem with this right now?
Oh, and so you know that this is not just a ***** session, here are some possible solutions to the ECM suite as it exists in MWO. Here are some downsides and counters that could help balance this issue:
1- This feature would work better if a lock on for missiles was still possible with line of sight, it would just take much longe and can be lost a lot easier.
2-Counter ECM should completely nullify ALL mechs running ECM under the counter-ECM bubble, period.
3- Take it away from the Atlas AS7 D-DC for the love of -insert diety-. Look up "overpowered" in the dictionary and there ought to be a picture of this variant. And, um, they are not canonical or even apocryphal. Wonder why everyone drives them?
4- Give a warning to mechs armed with BAP similar to the audible lock-on warning and incoming missile warning. *WARNING ENEMY JAMMING*. Real world equipment operators know when they are being jammed. Why can't I?
5- Make it as fragile as it probably is. If the component it is riding in takes any form of critical hit, it should be immediately destroyed without exception. It's a computer, but hardly ever gets taken out of action while rugged autocannons and other tough components have the batlefield lasting power of a mayfly.
6- Maybe make it so that if there is an ammo cookoff next to the hitbox thas has the ECM suite kills it.
7- A PPC strike could not only shut down the system but require the pilot to manually switch it back on with a 50% or 75% chance that it even works again.
7- On a following note, make it so that the pilot is stunned for a few seconds from kickback from the neural helmet being plugged directly into a sensitive computer system when it is destroyed.
8- If I can see the mech with my eyeballs, then I should be able to lock on to them. The game mechanic of lock-on simulates a pilot using all of his senses and the mech senses to target an enemy. The in-game lock on is just a simulation of how this works. Maybe make it so that I can point and manually target someone I see? How does ECM counter eyeball spotting?!?
9- Put it in chassis variants that are hardly used and have bad hardpoints.
10- Make every mech that has it need an XL engine or go home. To save weight for the component and to make it easier to kill.
11- Instead of making the mech that has it invisible to everything but eyeball spotting and Thermal, have it go in and out. We still know a mech is there, just can't pinpoint location or loadout.
12- If a mech has ECM, then false locations would be fun. Or multiple target locations.
13- The mech mounting it, and ONLY the mech mounting it, can use it benefits. No more running clusters of invisible SRM assault mech death.
14- ECM should be super expensive, maybe even cost C-bills before a match begins. After all, real world systems require lots of time from highly experienced technicians to work at all. Think they do that for free in the Battletech universe? Does Comstar work for free?
In short, ECM is wildly overpowered, has no real drawbacks or counter and is ruining the game experience for me. Me and lots of other folk. It's not hard to fix, PGI. So fix it!
Argh. /rant over.

[Blandtastic]

Missiles. I think LRMs are overpowered and make the game easy. I also think that SRMs are fine. SRMs are rockets, basically. A 5-inch Zuni rocket is a hugely destructive, unguided death spray. Just like SRMs. I like them, no need to fix. LRMs, on the other hand, are pretty powerful. Easy to fix. Right now 100% of the missiles hit. Change that so only 25-50% hit, depending on speed, range and other mods. However, with a solid lock on, at least 50% hit. 75% with an ARTEMIS lock on in the open. 100% hits with TAG in the open. There, fixed it. I love running an Atlas with 2 ER PPCs for the ECM guys out there and LRM 20s with ARTEMIS after I tag said ECM boats with PPC for the lock on and the kill.

[Blandtastic]

Ooh, faction dependent upgrades! That would be kewl.

[Dihm]

For whoever bought the slidewhistle and felt they had to put it in the game, please, please please please take it out back and shoot it.

No more slidewhistles for laser recharging sound effects please.

It is to the point where I actively try to avoid using the weapons on my mechs.

Edited by Dihm, 07 March 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[ShdwWraith]

I guess this match was tonnage-matched.... Still got light-*****

[Seelenlos]

Blandtastic, on 07 March 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

other hand, are pretty powerful. Easy to fix. Right now 100% of the missiles hit. Change that so only 25-50% hit, depending on speed, range and other mods. However, with a solid lock on, at least 50% hit. 75% with an ARTEMIS lock on in the open. 100% hits with TAG in the open. There, fixed it. I love running an Atlas with 2 ER PPCs for the ECM guys out there and LRM 20s with ARTEMIS after I tag said ECM boats with PPC for the lock on and the kill.

Hi,

as I understood the rules that times, it was so, that each missile had a chance to hit or not to hit. That way the rules granted that one single kill hits happen only on high dice rolls or on the dangerous approach to go near enemy or invest in TAG or BAP.

So minimizing the to-hit-factor will make it really interesting.

Edited by Seelenlos, 08 March 2013 - 02:51 AM.

[Seelenlos]

I would like to hint you to the following posts:

http://mwomercs.com/...non-ecm-lights/

As with the new Net-code-upgrade, the Devs should change all missile damages their standard asap with (imho) an emergency patch to see if things get more balanced on all sides.

Specially with the running contest this WE...!?!

[Mad Elf]

In general, nice patch, well done. Some specifics:

- MAGIC TREE!!! (OK, so it's a brand name...) I've been waiting for this literally since my first day on the game. THANK YOU!

(That said, it's still a tad expensive. Can I get a discount for having one automatically fitted to every mech I'll ever own? (Repo Man fan here...))

- Hit rollback: very nice. Of course it makes lasers hitscan weapons; only MW2 was dumb enough to make them anything else.

- Laser recharge sound: Kill it WITH FIRE.

- Testing grounds: nice idea, already used it a fair bit. Will be even better with the bugs ironed out (pilot lab unlocks not working, graphics bugs in Forest Colony). Would be even more better with a couple of extra features: map selection (which I know is coming) and ability to bring more than one player in -- so we can practice covering, spotter/LRM boat coordination, counter-marching, etc.; and so people can do their Trials of Succession in an environment that doesn't annoy everyone else.

- And just to remind you devs, the ECM issue is still out there. Read Blandtastic's post above, it covers all the high points very nicely.

[JuiceKeeper]

Hi, I didnt know where to post this question so i do it here so am sry if theres any thread about it somewhere.
I am curious if something will be done with betty sound You are targeted. At current implemetation its little bit counter productive in some situations. It might be intentional or not I dont know. But i noticed that this new feature on betty it gives away ur sort of sneaking stealth capabilities. Personaly i noticed 2 light scouts with ecm just becouse of that when they got behind my back and targeted me and i got betty warning i knew there must be somebody around becouse i didnt saw any other enemy on my hud so was quite obvious somebody is sneaking around. So it sort of nullifies all that scouting and tag targeting ability from light mechs. Or anybody who wants flank enemy and hit him from side where he isnt expecting it.

[Cest7]

Ams could afford a buff with the new changes to LRMs

[EVA1313]

Love the patch it has help me and my low ping do well these last few rounds. Not sure where to put this...

Command Concern: as we get bigger games (12 v 12) it would be nice to have lance commanders not just team commanders. For example in the selection box ( in the map view) you have the option of Captain (for the company and "gold lance") Red Lieutenant (for one lance) and Green Lieutenant (for the last lance)

Also you could form to a lance by selecting the colored lance under a lance commander.

That way all commands can go to a lance and not the entire team (when you see the color on the top of the screen).

I know that you have allowed for preformed Lances but it would be nice to form pick up lances during the load up part of the game.

[EVA1313]

Blandtastic, on 07 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Glaring issue with game balance is ECM. The Raven was literally designed around the ECM module. [color=#0000ff]http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raven[/color] the same way the Warthog airframe was designed around its massive chain gun. It was such as massive and complex system that the Raven had to be designed around it.
Also, no variant of the Atlas [color=#0000ff]http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Atlas_(BattleMech[/color]), a huge dominating powerful mech, mounts ECM. With the exception of the AS7 S2 or the AS7 K2, which are both post-jihad mechs that are at least 20 years away from fielding in the MWO timeline. Meanwhile, we have a seriously overpowered mech in the Atlas AS7 D-DC that is supposed to be a command and control mech and is instead a 100 ton ninja of death. Which is fun for the driver of the beast but forces everyone else into the same playstyle to counter this thing. Which makes the game kind of un-fun. PGI has moved away from apocryphal to the TT game universe to just making stuff up as they go along to fit the whims of its upper management. They do this at the expense of a rich, detailed game universe that I have loved since the '80s. Not to mention that going against the grain of the fiction and TT rules with impunity kind of breaks the game appeal. I want Battletech, not Heavy Gear II, Metal Storm or Gundam. PGI, if you absolutely must mount this on an Atlas, then for God's sake make it a K variant with an XL engine that can't be swapped out. It's called "balance". Look it up.
If it "works", then why is it every winning team, almost without exception, has at least one Raven 3L and most likely two or more Atlas D-DCs? Why is it winning teams almost always feature this component? Why is it the platforms that feature this platform are chosen almost without exception over other variants? Unless, of course, the player is grinding the mech, then discards the variants without it for the one with it. I would be very interesting to see the win/loss and kill/death stats from the PGI servers of the mechs and teams that mount ECM versus variants that do not. Interesting and revealing.
Why does the way it is working in this game completely nullify BAP and NARC? When the TT rules explicitly state that, while it can mask the signals for BAP, someone with BAP is aware they are being jammed? Why is it that you cannot achieve a lock-on with this equipment mounted at all, even in extremely close range? Why does it affect all the mechs under its umbrella, regardless of tonnage or engines? How on earth could this thing hide seismic waves from allied mechs? How can it jam lock on of other mechs? How can it prevent line of sight lock-ons, even at extremely close range? How can it prevent lock-on with thermal systems? How does it block magnetic sensing? How does it completely mask radar returns on an 80 foot wall of steel with a fusion engine? How can it do this with 8 mechs in a 180 meter Cloak of Invisibility, er, um, bubble of effect? Why is it this component is almost never destroyed, despite the fact that at its core it is a fancy computer mounted on a walking war machine getting hosed with all kinds of fire? Why is it that this system stacks so that counter ECM only affects one disruption ECM, while another one cancels out the counter?
I am getting really sick of 400 tons of mech being hidden under one component that only costs 1.5 tons and 2 critical slots and has no real downside. I am getting sick of the same tactics of ECM/SRM/Stalker/Atlas strike team being used almost without exception. I am sick of players thinking they are better than they are simply because their team mounts a component that makes all of them invisible without any downside. And I am completely tired of running thermal systems all the time on every map because it is the only way to play now with this thing running all the time on all maps with all teams. Kind of a waste of really excellent artwork and terrain models. If I was a freelance artist working for PGI, I would be pissed that the kickass commercial art I made for the game is never being seen by anyone.
Yes, I know that TAG and PPC nullifies it. Good luck hitting a Raven 3L running at 140+ KPH with PPC. Especially with server lagtime. Good luck keeping TAG on an enemy mech during an intense furball. Good luck getting either of these tactics to work at 1200 meter range of missile engagement. Good luck taking out the three or four Atli that are coming over the ridgeline into your base through a cave under a sooper-dooper Cloak of Invisibility. Good luck countering all 8 players on an opposing team hiding in one grid square that are invisible until they are within range of their combined 24-40 SRM launchers. Oh, and after the patch now I am seeing a lot of LRM armed Atlas AS7 D-DC missile boats with ECM using TAG to hose a mech to death before anyone even knows they are there. Exploit much, people?
My problem isn't that it "works" and is "fine". My problem is that it it "works" entirely too well and is unbalancing. It completely alters the way the game is played, and not in a good way. Most games now revolve around countering ECM instead of using tactics to fire and move to capture and hold an objective. The game is all about one component. Am I seriously the only one who sees a problem with this right now?
Oh, and so you know that this is not just a ***** session, here are some possible solutions to the ECM suite as it exists in MWO. Here are some downsides and counters that could help balance this issue:
1- This feature would work better if a lock on for missiles was still possible with line of sight, it would just take much longe and can be lost a lot easier.
2-Counter ECM should completely nullify ALL mechs running ECM under the counter-ECM bubble, period.
3- Take it away from the Atlas AS7 D-DC for the love of -insert diety-. Look up "overpowered" in the dictionary and there ought to be a picture of this variant. And, um, they are not canonical or even apocryphal. Wonder why everyone drives them?
4- Give a warning to mechs armed with BAP similar to the audible lock-on warning and incoming missile warning. *WARNING ENEMY JAMMING*. Real world equipment operators know when they are being jammed. Why can't I?
5- Make it as fragile as it probably is. If the component it is riding in takes any form of critical hit, it should be immediately destroyed without exception. It's a computer, but hardly ever gets taken out of action while rugged autocannons and other tough components have the batlefield lasting power of a mayfly.
6- Maybe make it so that if there is an ammo cookoff next to the hitbox thas has the ECM suite kills it.
7- A PPC strike could not only shut down the system but require the pilot to manually switch it back on with a 50% or 75% chance that it even works again.
7- On a following note, make it so that the pilot is stunned for a few seconds from kickback from the neural helmet being plugged directly into a sensitive computer system when it is destroyed.
8- If I can see the mech with my eyeballs, then I should be able to lock on to them. The game mechanic of lock-on simulates a pilot using all of his senses and the mech senses to target an enemy. The in-game lock on is just a simulation of how this works. Maybe make it so that I can point and manually target someone I see? How does ECM counter eyeball spotting?!?
9- Put it in chassis variants that are hardly used and have bad hardpoints.
10- Make every mech that has it need an XL engine or go home. To save weight for the component and to make it easier to kill.
11- Instead of making the mech that has it invisible to everything but eyeball spotting and Thermal, have it go in and out. We still know a Mech is there, just can't pinpoint location or load out.
12- If a mech has ECM, then false locations would be fun. Or multiple target locations.
13- The Mech mounting it, and ONLY the Mech mounting it, can use it benefits. No more running clusters of invisible SRM assault Mech death.
14- ECM should be super expensive, maybe even cost C-bills before a match begins. After all, real world systems require lots of time from highly experienced technicians to work at all. Think they do that for free in the Battletech universe? Does Comstar work for free?
In short, ECM is wildly overpowered, has no real drawbacks or counter and is ruining the game experience for me. Me and lots of other folk. It's not hard to fix, PGI. So fix it!
Argh. /rant over.

I am fine with it on the Light mech or even the Mediums. And I am fine with it "covering" an area but I would make either of the following changes:
1. It also block your radar and prevents your missile locks (making it a double edge sword and requiring you to get the BAP so you can function under the bubble). If it blinds you as much as it blinds them then you can either be blind or add the BAP since very few mechs have the BAP at this time it would make it more functional.
A. It would make Pilots chose cover under ECM but I can't use my LRMS or hang back and shoot from the rear.
2. Have BAP negate the effects of ECM for 30 secs after it leaves the bubble (only when it is on enemy Mechs). So like a computer it has to reboot.
3. If hit by a PPC the ECM should no longer work. That way a scout is safe (sort of) and the Assault Mech is now just a big target that I have to hit with a PPC.
4. Have the BAP do more than just "Sense powered down Mechs" Have it extend the range to 1.5k and nullify ECM at .75K If it did that I would have one on every Mech

Sum it up: If you leave the ECM they way it is please give us counter measures to fight it better (Or have it hinder friendlies as much as it hinders us).

[Kyone Akashi]

Feedback

Capture Zone Markers: Bad addition. Whilst I recognize that this was likely done to help new players notice the zone borders, this new feature ultimately tries to make a gameplay mechanic look like a part of the environment, which is somewhat irritating. Did someone go around to set these markers up right before the battle? The previous red square on the ground was visible enough, yet at the same time could be ignored when we did not want to see them. Now, the laser-lines between the markers even obstruct our Heatvision, as if the mere presence of the lasers would not be enough to distract.
Please, devs - Immersion is important! Don't just slap random gameplay doodads on what is supposed to be a battlefield. From my perception, this is on about the same level as if we had damage numbers float up from enemy 'Mechs every time we hit them. Do not want!

Laser Sounds: As mentioned by other players, the new sounds are very "arcade-like" and thus unfitting for the rather gritty portrayal of battletech-nology the game is otherwise going for. I would greatly welcome them to be removed again, or at least have them be optional. Together with the ECM/SSRM2 fiasco, this is just one more reason for me to keep my Jenner mothballed.

Both of the above things could well be made optional at least. If you are sceptical regarding a complete removal, would it not be possible to grant the players the ability to customize the game more to their liking in regards to such "features"? Would that not guarantee that everybody gets what they want? Same about the HUD colors, by the way. Options please!

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 10 March 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[Foster Bondroff]

Sadly i most admit, that the latest patches and both tournaments have turned MWO into a less enjoyable experience.

I am at the point where the game is more frustration than fun. Tired of seeing the same cookie-cutter builds and seeing the ECM imbalance still present. Would it not be for my fellow clan mates, i would not play anymore. Spending money on the game in its current state is completely out of question.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Light mechs still broken.
They Carry to large a weaponry and are doing to much dmg vs larger mechs. Assault vs Light ..Assault should win hands down ..that isnt the case in the majority fo fights unless the light mech is really slow or piloted horribly.
Light mechs and medium mechs should be duking it out with each other. Light mechs should also be scouts. They should NOT be hunting down Heavy and assualt mechs and making sport out of them.
IRL Speedboat vs Destroyer.

Missle dmg needs nerfing or AMS buffed. Currnelty AMS is next to worthless as to many missles get through so its not worth the weight to fit one and its corresponding ammo. IRL modern day AMS is much much better, how can a AMS in the year 3049 be so poor even with the loss of tech.
I understand the need for a noob freindly fire and forget weapon, but the range and dmg of them and the lack of any proper countermeasure is rediculus.

Get the Mech weight class ballance correct along with usfull coutnermeasures and that the major problem i see out of the way.
Small mech small weapons and light armor ..big mech big weapons and heavy armor .. Small weapons vs heavy armor = little dmg. Think handgun vs Tank armor.

[Timberwolf2000]

bug report - when i modify my mech (remove engine, and it cant join battle) and logout from mechlab, button "launch" become INACTIVE (yellow). Then i choose another my own mech, wich completly ready, but button "launch" not become green (READY).