97 replies to this topic

[steelblueskies]

ah good to see, one can leave for a couple of months waiting on them to not herp derp on this issue, and come back to find absolutely nothing done.

[Kotev]

I can`t understand why so much outcry over ECM. I have Atlas with it, and still got pounded with LRM and killed by good players. I also have other mech`s without it and still kill people with ECM. Lets be real people its not the ECM its pilot SKILL that matters.

[Caboose30]

Kotev, on 09 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I can`t understand why so much outcry over ECM. I have Atlas with it, and still got pounded with LRM and killed by good players. I also have other mech`s without it and still kill people with ECM. Lets be real people its not the ECM its pilot SKILL that matters.

The problem is not exactly ECM, but the lack of communication on all the perceived issues with it. (I'm being neutral here, I don't like it in it's current state either) I mean, take the latest coolant pod thing. Announced, outcry, couple days later revamped. They specifically said upon the implementation of ECM to let them know how we felt and they would adjust it accordingly. Most official ECM feedback threads have been 75% negative (yes, I read through all 95 pages), and still no official announcement. Not even a "Message received". *that's* the larger issue here. If it's not going to change, publicly tell us so. If it is going to change but you don't want to say how exactly, that's fine. Just say *something*. What's discouraging to me is the vast amount of people playing still dislike ECM, but have given up on the forums since it's been a couple months. I say we need to bring back all the ECM threads and see how long we can keep it up before we're forced to be acknowledged.

[Zweistein]

What about this: ECM also disrupts/counters friendly mechs. This will soft nerf LRM boats and nerf ECM. If also makes sense since ECM only jamming specific equipment makes it easily countered and thus useless. It also make no sense that the same ECM should jam enemy mechs, but not friendlies, when they both use exactly the same equipment.

[ICEFANG13]

Kotev, on 09 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I can`t understand why so much outcry over ECM. I have Atlas with it, and still got pounded with LRM and killed by good players. I also have other mech`s without it and still kill people with ECM. Lets be real people its not the ECM its pilot SKILL that matters.

How much skill did you take to use ECM? Was it hard to make room for 1.5 tons and 2 slots? Does the drawback (none) hinder your abilities?

How much skill did it take to use those LRMs with TAG? Was it hard to make room for 12 tons^ and 6 slots^? Does the drawback (180 min range, have to keep on target, ammo requirement) hinder your abilities?

[Kotev]

ICEFANG13, on 09 March 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

How much skill did you take to use ECM? Was it hard to make room for 1.5 tons and 2 slots? Does the drawback (none) hinder your abilities?

How much skill did it take to use those LRMs with TAG? Was it hard to make room for 12 tons^ and 6 slots^? Does the drawback (180 min range, have to keep on target, ammo requirement) hinder your abilities?

I agree with your point, but for me drawback of ECM is it limitation on only 3 chassis with mech hardpoints/setup not for everyone`s liking. Maybe i`m wrong but for me ECM is not game changer exactly the opposite, when mech with ECM is close to me and i don`t have line of sight or i`m aware of it`s presence the icon that i`m under effect of a ECM its like passive radar for me

[ICEFANG13]

I somewhat agree that the chassis limitation is a limitation, but they put ECM on some of the best mechs of the mech class (D-DC, 2D, 5D, 3L), even the worst of them (3M) is by so much better than the 3C. If the K, 1B, 5K, 2X, and 3C had ECM, I would agree 100%. Right now its a silly limiter and it completely changed how MWO is played (good or bad, it did).

I mean, if every mech could use ECM, every mech would.

[LackofCertainty]

DukeRustfield, on 06 March 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

In their credit, they weren't fighting me. They were doing what they should be doing. But I was 700 away and because of my partner, knew they were there. End of story.

Also, Tag works. People are making these "OMG I HAVE TO EQUIP MY OWN TAG" statements. You know those things that totally bypass ECM and cost 1 ton. I've even seen people keep them perma on. It doesn't get past the sneaky of ECM, but it gets past the fact you can't lock them.

The issue with this is that in order for tag to actually work, you need to keep the ECM mech painted for the entire flight time of the LRMs. If you are able to keep them painted for the entire flight time of the LRMs, then you'd be better off using a direct fire weapon, because with that level of precision you'd have the ecm mech dead twice over by the time those missiles hit.

In my experience, trying to tag for yourself as an LRM boat is just asking to die to ppc/gauss fire.

As people have said, LRMs are probably too strong, but the fix for that is to nerf LRM damage and/or buff AMS, not to make ECM completely negate LRMs. (AMS should be the best anti-LRM device, not ECM)

P.S.
At some point, I'd like to see someone make a compilation of all the "ECM Feedback [Insert Date]" threads, just to see how big the darn thing would be.

Edited by LackofCertainty, 09 March 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[jay35]

I don't find ECM to be a problem. I find the Raven 3L to be a problem mostly due to its hitboxes/armor. This issue is equally problematic on the other Raven variants, however when it is most noticeable on the 3L due to ECM preventing missile lock (except when its ECM is countered), and lock-on missiles are the easiest way to hit a Light mech.

ECM gets a bad rap but it is the Raven chassis itself that is the real source of the problem. It takes (or appears to take) way more punishment than it should. Either shots aren't registering their full damage on it, or it has way more armor than perhaps it should.

If the Raven had its wings clipped a little so that it wasn't quite so absurdly durable, people would realize that ECM isn't really the problem and in fact plays an important role in broadening the tactical gameplay options available to players and teams alike.

Edited by jay35, 09 March 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

Sudden Reversal, on 09 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

It is my impression that PGI have painted themselves into a corner somewhat in regards to ECM.

Obviously they personally like it and wish it to stay in its current form. This is somewhat understandable as they play with single digit pings, voice communication and coordinated drops. Under those circumstances ECM most probably provides a fun to circumvent challenge and an early designated target to focus on. The problems in gameplay that ECM brings are largely ameliorated in that format.

Sadly this is not the PUG players experience, far from it, as ECM for the most part does nothing but degrade their enjoyment of the game as reflected in a recent poll where over 50% of the thousand respondents disliked its addition.

As a result there is a hue and cry on the forums and PGI look to their data for justification. They find it of course, as it reflects that the great majority in fact do not use ECM capable Mechs. The inference would be that if it were so OP then everyone would be using it, right? Actually no, that would be wrong. Most people will continue to drop in their favourite chassis, or work on variants to skill up their piloting or refuse to ride in such a downright imbalanced Mech such as the Raven 3L on principle. These may be mitigating effects however they do nothing to address the disparity in usefulness and game influence that a paltry 1.5 tons and 2 critical spaces creates.

So the Devs do not want to change it as it is their version and vision for information warfare but must be seen to be open to change. They are in a double bind, how to keep it in its current form yet make the punters feel that change and balance are in the works.

What you get is vague, sporadic comments stating they are looking at it and 'minor tweaks' are coming whilst introducing bandaid fixes like TAG range increase and PPC 4s disruption in a hope that will quell most of the disquiet. Nothing more definitive than that as the truth just might be too painful for many players to hear, they might just shed a tear and move on.

They are happy for the ECM dissenters to labour under the impression that a fix just might be in the works, clinging on to false hope that reason will somehow prevail, all for the betterment of the game when in reality it will be business as usual.

Hope springs eternal and I here I am still, playing despite the oppressive blanket that is ECM shrouding an otherwise excellent game.

I agree with this 100%

[Flapdrol]

who saw this coming guys? I sure didn't

http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry2037727

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

I don't care, 4 months of feedbacks totally ignored, and they just listen to us now ? What a waste of time and resources.


But I will make some day a HUGE topic about how to balance this game for good ... for these clueless devs ...

[Twisted Power]

That post basically says "we like the fact that it does all this stupid ****". It is not going to get changed so that it doesnt cloak an entire team.

Edited by Twisted Power, 10 March 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[RANSARI]

My brothers, I know 'tis difficult, but if we let despair grip us now, then the blood, sweat, and tears (read: dollars) we have invested into this enterprise shall be for naught.

http://mwomercs.com/...and-discussion/

Go forth and spread the gospel! Balance at last! Balance at last! Thank the Mech God! Balance at last! Resound O' Cry of GAME BALANCE!

[Haitchpeasauce]

steelblueskies, on 09 March 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

ah good to see, one can leave for a couple of months waiting on them to not herp derp on this issue, and come back to find absolutely nothing done.

Like sand through the hourglass, so are the Days of ECM.

[Asha Catari]

Flapdrol, on 10 March 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

who saw this coming guys? I sure didn't

http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry2037727

quote: 'We understand that some people love it, and some people hate it. That's exactly the polarizing type of content we want!'

Well if the developers want polarizing content that some people love (those that use it) and some people hate (those that do not), here are some ideas for achieving this goal:
increasing LRM damage to 10 per missile
increasing (Streak-)SRM damage to 20 per missile
make it so Gauss cannons cannot explode (as was in the past when some people complained about that and others happily exploited this 'polarizing content')
.
.
.
I am sure you get the idea

[NuclearPanda]

RANSARI, on 10 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

My brothers, I know 'tis difficult, but if we let despair grip us now, then the blood, sweat, and tears (read: dollars) we have invested into this enterprise shall be for naught.

http://mwomercs.com/...and-discussion/

Go forth and spread the gospel! Balance at last! Balance at last! Thank the Mech God! Balance at last! Resound O' Cry of GAME BALANCE!

I'm pleased that at least an official "discussion" has been opened up into this matter. I'm not looking for the removal of ECM at all. As I previously said I only want them to try to tweak things, play around with factors and see what "fits" in conjunction with the current gamestate.