18 replies to this topic

[Inveramsay]

It does seem to work, I've never before died so easily in my Jenner as post patch today. To me it would indicate it is working, I almost always get a red reticle now when shooting someone with lasers. It has however meant that lights are probably back more towards their natural role of hit and run rather than circle strafing. The raven still seems a bit weird though and the safest bet appears to be to leg them

I give thumbs up, even if it means dying more

[Sable Dove]

It doesn't seem like they actually implemented HSR. They just made lasers, flamers, and MGs (weapons that HSR makes indistinguishable from hitscan weapons) into hitscan weapons, and called it HSR. Not that I'm against hitscan lasers; I'm just against them claiming it's a new system when it's simply something that should have simply always been part of the game. There was no good reason for them not to act like they do now right from the start.

[Hobietime]

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

It doesn't seem like they actually implemented HSR. They just made lasers, flamers, and MGs (weapons that HSR makes indistinguishable from hitscan weapons) into hitscan weapons, and called it HSR. Not that I'm against hitscan lasers; I'm just against them claiming it's a new system when it's simply something that should have simply always been part of the game. There was no good reason for them not to act like they do now right from the start.

They were hitscan before. The hit detection is not client side but server side, hence the need to lead. HSR provides a time stamp with the fire weapon command to the server. So when the command to fire and the position of the laser's vector gets to the server after the target has moved the server "rewinds" the target mech's position to that time and checks for a hit just like any hitscan weapon.

[Sable Dove]

Hobietime, on 05 March 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

They were hitscan before. The hit detection is not client side but server side, hence the need to lead. HSR provides a time stamp with the fire weapon command to the server. So when the command to fire and the position of the laser's vector gets to the server after the target has moved the server "rewinds" the target mech's position to that time and checks for a hit just like any hitscan weapon.

Server-side hit-detection with instant-travel weapons is not hitscan. Not in the spirit of the definition, at least. Hitscan implies client-side, as that's the only way for it to eliminate latency issues. Essentially, HSR makes lasers indistinguishable from client-side hitscan weapons, so where is the evidence that HSR was actually implemented? The only weapons that are affected by HSR are weapons that now function like client-side hitscan. Not to mention that these weapons did not need HSR anywhere remotely close to how much ACs and SRMs need it. Why would you only implement a system with weapons that don't really need it, while ignoring those that desperately need it?

[POWR]

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

It doesn't seem like they actually implemented HSR. They just made lasers, flamers, and MGs (weapons that HSR makes indistinguishable from hitscan weapons) into hitscan weapons, and called it HSR. Not that I'm against hitscan lasers; I'm just against them claiming it's a new system when it's simply something that should have simply always been part of the game. There was no good reason for them not to act like they do now right from the start.

Lol and how do you think hitscan works?

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Why would you only implement a system with weapons that don't really need it, while ignoring those that desperately need it?

To test that the system works on something that is simpler than moving projectiles? I don't know...

Edited by POWR, 05 March 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[Xenon Codex]

Good to hear it seems to be working. I'm not sure how much this will help us shooting at high-ping lights that are currently bouncing all over the place due to lag, but it's a start.

Yesterday I watched a high-ping raven run octagons around a teammate. There was no smooth movement, just warping from one point to the next, quite silly.

[Xenon Codex]

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

The only weapons that are affected by HSR are weapons that now function like client-side hitscan. Not to mention that these weapons did not need HSR anywhere remotely close to how much ACs and SRMs need it. Why would you only implement a system with weapons that don't really need it, while ignoring those that desperately need it?

As far as ballistics go, my GUESS is that ballistics add another layer of calculations to the server due to projectile travel times. So they decided to take a piecemeal approach by implementing the simplest weapons so they can monitor server resources before adding in the ballistics. And they might not even have the ballistics thing figured out yet. Such as what if your target was in mid-turn when you fired your SRMs? He might have legitimately dodged them if he continued in that arc, so a simple straight-line vector calculation on the server would be in error. It will require following the paths of the projectile and the target forward from the rewind state through several iterations to find the correct point of impact (or miss). Compromises will have to be made depending on server resources. Doesn't seem like any easy task to me.

[Haakon Magnusson]

Felt to me like I was rewinding back and forth today on my Cicada, have 120ish ping but haven't had me rubberbanding from place to place in a long while. Today there was something iffy going on... can't really say if hit's registered better but it was definately rewinding me to places. Gotta get more games under my belt, but there seemed to be something funny going on.

[PanzerMonkey]

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

Server-side hit-detection with instant-travel weapons is not hitscan...

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HITSCAN MEANS! Please shut up.

[megoblocks]

I love this too. Splatting lights is fun, makes piloting them more challenging as well.

[Allen Ward]

Shooting at lights with SRMs definitely felt a bit strange today. I can only hit when they move straight at me or from me, if I get circled, there is not much difference to the old lagshield/rubberbanding problems. I do lead, but use Artemis, so it is twice as hard to hit (all or nothing). I had several moments at about 50-90m distance, where I was sure I had to hit, but my missiles passed the raven by several meters (he was still ahead of them).

So HRS works only for certain weapons? Not a big step towards balancing I dare say. What about eliminating low ping by putting up more servers? EU? Asia? It's not like that PGI is not earning money with all those mechbays, heromechs, camos and cockpit glitter... you just shouldn't have opened the game worldwide while only US/Canada based players can actually play it without such troubles. It's a shooter, it lives and dies with low/high latency.

Still, most problems are created by the man steering the machine, which is me I suppose...I will have to train harder on lead and fast turn. This won't be a disadvantage when these problems will ever be solved, I guess.

[Elizander]

I managed to hit a raven and blow it up with 4 PPCs when I was aiming for it, so seems to work. Just 1 game though, I'll have to play a few more during the week.

[Sable Dove]

Elizander, on 05 March 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

I managed to hit a raven and blow it up with 4 PPCs when I was aiming for it, so seems to work. Just 1 game though, I'll have to play a few more during the week.

PPCs are not affected by HSR. Only lasers, flamers, and MGs are currently affected. PGI decided not to implement the system for the weapons that seriously need it for some reason.

[Inveramsay]

Sable Dove, on 05 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

PPCs are not affected by HSR. Only lasers, flamers, and MGs are currently affected. PGI decided not to implement the system for the weapons that seriously need it for some reason.

In their defence though they are calling it phase 1 which would imply that more is to come. I can only imagine it is much easier doing HSR for weapons like lasers.

[The Cheese]

State rewind is the best thing you've added to the game yet. Works brilliantly.

[Herr Vorragend]

Good work, guys! It´s working pretty well with a 140ish ping from germany. Will the ballistics be reworked, too?

Edited by Herr Vorragend, 06 March 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[ShaggyMoose]

With an average ping of 275, the network code changes have made a big difference to my game. Without leading targets at all with lasers, I am seeing a red reticle most of the time. My average damage has increased 100-200 per match. Great stuff.

[Fooooo]

Can't wait to try it out, sounds like good news from fellow aussies so far.


The only trick will probably be having to adjust more for ballistics in the mean time, as now I will have to aim at the actual target I can see for lasers (instead of the invisible lagged one), but at the invisible lag shielded one for ballistics.(At least on a target running across the screen.....)

That is until they finish HSR for ballistics and ppcs etc at least.

[StalaggtIKE]

I knew something was working as intended the moment I crossed that ridge and came back with orange and red armor. It felt so satisfying to feel squishy in my RVN-3L. Good job devs.

As for ballistics, I always had an easier time scoring hits with them. The PPC were a bit flakey. Perhaps it was concluded they did not need HSR. Or as posted above, this is only Phase 1, with more to come.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 06 March 2013 - 04:29 AM.