40 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

I have been complaining about the normal visibility on maps since closed beta, its improved some, but still has a long way to go.

[Serapth]

Theevenger, on 05 March 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Yes, they would. They work great in the desert at 140 F, so unless your electronics fail outright due to the heat (a distinct possibility with our real world tech, but unlikely if our Mechs are built for this kind of thing) they will do fine.

Yeah... you dont speak metric do you?

90C is 194 F.

Therma vision would just be a solid blur in that temperature, if it worked at all.

[Karr285]

Theevenger, on 05 March 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

140 F = 60 C. That's plenty close enough to prove the concept. The only thing that actually matters is a contrast.

if you think so that's hilarity.

[Theevenger]

Serapth, on 05 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Yeah... you dont speak metric do you?

90C is 194 F.

Therma vision would just be a solid blur in that temperature, if it worked at all.

Yes, I do speak metric. And no, they wouldn't. Unless the sensors physically break down from the heat, or the desired target is essentially at ambient temperature, you will see them just fine with your thermals. You can dial the gain down so that the ambient background heat is not an issue, and as long as your target is still hotter, you will see him just fine. What I am suggesting is that if our current technology is not even close to "over exposed" at 60C, Mech thermals shouldn't have any problem at 90C.

Thirdstar, on 05 March 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

In case people haven't noticed, this is a game about Giant Stompy Robots. Features within the game should first pass the gameplay test before we even THINK about making real life comparisons.

Is it engaging gameplay? Does thermal invalidate normal vision and night vision? These are pertinent questions. Not, "well that's how it works on current tanks".

See the following: http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Theevenger, 05 March 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Karr285]

Theevenger, on 05 March 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

Yes, I do speak metric. And no, they wouldn't. Unless the sensors physically break down from the heat, or the desired target is essentially at ambient temperature, you will see them just fine with your thermals. You can dial the gain down so that the ambient background heat is not an issue, and as long as your target is still hotter, you will see him just fine. What I am suggesting is that if our current technology is not even close to "over exposed" at 60C, Mech thermals shouldn't have any problem at 90C.

to bad none of it makes sense. If this was true this also means they inverted the fields Blue = hot red = Cold

works well until you realize your cold mech keeps getting more red as it heats up.

Secondly if you are still correct, your mech is most likely cooler than 90C and should eventually become Blue IE same colour as map as you heat up until you get hotter than the map so ppl can see you again.

The Cooling system in the cockpit is terrible which is the other reason Pilots wear Cooling vests or suits , if the temp in that cockpit ever hit 90C or 100C(ie hotter than the map) your pilot is dead, he just boiled alive.

[Theevenger]

Chavette, on 05 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

It wont stay like that for long, it was messed up on purpose, and the guy who adjusts it said he will keep it that way, along with the desert map.

I can't tell if this is serious or not. If it is, do you have more information?

[Theevenger]

Karr285, on 05 March 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

to bad none of it makes sense. If this was true this also means they inverted the fields Blue = hot red = Cold

works well until you realize your cold mech keeps getting more red as it heats up.

Secondly if you are still correct, your mech is most likely cooler than 90C and should eventually become Blue IE same colour as map as you heat up until you get hotter than the map so ppl can see you again.

The Cooling system in the cockpit is terrible which is the other reason Pilots wear Cooling vests or suits , if the temp in that cockpit ever hit 90C or 100C(ie hotter than the map) your pilot is dead, he just boiled alive.

The Mech's skin will probably not be cooler than 90C, but even if it were its reactor and other hotspots won't be. A vehicle will always be hotter than its ambient environment. A tank that is completely cool to the touch will still show up like crazy the instant its engine turns on, even though the outer skin hasn't heated up yet. Thermal energy passes through objects to a certain degree.


Now, one thing that I think both of us will agree on is that it's ridiculous that if you look at your enemies through the gas geysers in the Caldera they are magically contrasted for you so that you are not blinded. That, that is ridiculous (Unless you were passed the sensor data from other targetting soruces...but I have no idea if the C3 in BattleTech was able to do that)

Edited by Theevenger, 05 March 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Y'know, what bothers me is that we need to switch between various modes. Why not just have overlays on the visual spectrum? For one combining information from multiple sensors make sense as it provides more info for decision-making by the player, and for two the developers spent so much effort to make things pretty, why switch to a low-res grainy image that waste the effort?

[Theevenger]

Lynx7725, on 05 March 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Y'know, what bothers me is that we need to switch between various modes. Why not just have overlays on the visual spectrum? For one combining information from multiple sensors make sense as it provides more info for decision-making by the player, and for two the developers spent so much effort to make things pretty, why switch to a low-res grainy image that waste the effort?

That's actually a fairly interesting suggestion. Modern NVGs actually do that. They combine thermal sensors and low-light sensors and produce a composite image. I'm not sure how that would mix with normal daylight vision though.

[Corvus Antaka]

yeah I hate this change too. and is it me or did the heat on caustic get easier too manage?

[Mercules]

Asmosis, on 05 March 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

how hot do you think a mini nuclear reactor gets?

You mean the "Fusion" reactor that doesn't really bleed heat? Heat from movement is from the resistance in the Myomer muscles which contract and release do to electrical current.

[Livewyr]

I still want thermal and night visions to be modules, and every mech to have Headlights as default.

/serious

Make them MC only. (or better, make NV Cbill, and Thermal MC)

[Accursed Richards]

Urgh, that takes away the best thing about Caustic, being a map where thermal wasn't the go-to vision mode.

Theevenger, on 05 March 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

I don't see why this is a problem. This is how it's done in real life. You scan in thermals even in the daytime, and they work great in the desert.

What in the world does real life have to do with this? You know, apart from boasting about your superior military knowledge. This game isn't here as an accurate simulation of future war, it's here to be fun. And when it's tactically optimal most of the time to ignore the cool graphics and walk around in Blue Blob Vision to be able to target at long range and through ECM, that isn't much fun.

Or just see the sig. Why do you hate cat girls?

[Corvus Antaka]

I would mind a lot less if thermal vision was a module at this point, it is simply too powerful, and honestly I use it in every game now since radar is so iffy due to ECM.

Caustic was nice, now its just another thermal map.

Another solution would be that mechs under 10% heat do not emit a thermal signature, ie they are just barely/impossible to see. mechs to 25% heat emit the current cold blue, mechs to 50% start glowing blue/red, and mechs over 75% emit a really obvious glow of yellow heat.

[Monky]

I would say it worked previously, but it was harder to use effectively than on other maps. Pink on green is harder to see than light blue on dark blue. It is easier now, and while I liked the flavor of different heat readouts, it's perfectly reasonable to assume your computer 'normalizes' the image.

[Sephlock]

"insides of caves should have increased background heat compared to outside the cave,"

Are we talking Volcanic caves ?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Make thermal a module.

[Felicitatem Parco]

There is a Patch Feedback posting on this issue.

http://mwomercs.com/...-feel-the-same/

Anyone who'd like to can chime in there and report their feedback to the Devs

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Theevenger, on 05 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

That's actually a fairly interesting suggestion. Modern NVGs actually do that. They combine thermal sensors and low-light sensors and produce a composite image. I'm not sure how that would mix with normal daylight vision though.

In 'real life', it would be probably be fairly straightforward to feed the data from your thermal camera through some image processors to find objects that are probably mechs, and then put a red triangle over them on your hud. So just like the current radar implementation (in that it would still be restricted by line-of-sight), but immune to ECM.

[Theevenger]

See this post for further discussion regarding intended changes to vision modes.

Fitzbattleaxe, on 07 March 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

In 'real life', it would be probably be fairly straightforward to feed the data from your thermal camera through some image processors to find objects that are probably mechs, and then put a red triangle over them on your hud. So just like the current radar implementation (in that it would still be restricted by line-of-sight), but immune to ECM.

In the ATGM variant of the Stryker, the gunnery optics actually do this, sort of. You manually overlay and size a target box on your target, and then it will track the target for you for as long as the sensor can see it. Kind of a pain to use, but it was pretty cool.