50 replies to this topic

[idle crow]

Az0r, on 05 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Problem is there's no other really GOOD weapons for light vs light fights. Lasers spread too much. PPCs are too big/hot to fit, same with AC20/Gauss.

I don't see Jenner D with 2xSRM4 4SL dominating the battlefield yet. But if it does I think we know why.

But that only further the argument of how SRM are the best damage to tonnage to heat weapon in the game.

Outside of simply reducing the damage the weapons recycle time could be increase or ammo per tonnage reduced.

Only have to look at RHOD and see how Cent-A SRM, Splatcat SRM and D-DC SRM dominate the majority of games.

[FerretWithASpork]

Az0r, on 05 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Lasers spread too much.

Are you on crack? Lasers have 0 spread.. that's the point of a laser.. it's focused energy... missiles spread...

[blinkin]

Az0r, on 05 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

PPCs are too big/hot to fit, same with AC20/Gauss.

i use an ERPPC on my jenner and it works great. it has 3 medium lasers, 12 heatsinks, and goes 142kph (with pilot skills). i still get stomped by anything with a streak launcher though.

hashinshin, on 05 March 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

You can keep streaks the same, nobody cares. It's the triple+ SRM6 that are dominating the game right now. Being able to spam AC20 levels of damage from 3 tons is insanity.

actually from what i have seen on the forums people care far more about streaks than anything else. some just don't care because streaks are only really OP against light mechs.

besides according to the wiki
http://mwowiki.org/wiki/Autocannon_20
http://mwowiki.org/w...Range_Missile_6

^^those two have the same recycle time. 4 seconds.

if you compare a single SRM6 to a single AC20 they kinda suck.

SRM6

• 15 damage
  
• large amounts of spread
  
• CANNOT do damage beyond 270m
  
• 300 flight speed

AC20

• 20 damage
  
• absolutely no spread
  
• deals damage out to 810m (reduced beyond 270m)
  
• 900 flight speed

and like i said before both have a recycle rate of 4 seconds.

Edited by blinkin, 09 March 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Khobai]

I think they need to decrease SRM damage and increase SRM range. All other weapons in the game can do damage past their tabletop max range except for SRMs. That seems inconsistent.

1) decrease damage per missile from 2.5 to 2.1 per missile (15% damage decrease)
2) increase max range from 270m to 360m (33% range increase)

Quote

if you compare a single SRM6 to a single AC20 they kinda suck.

SRM6

• 15 damage
  
• large amounts of spread
  
• CANNOT do damage beyond 270m
  
• 300 flight speed

AC20

• 20 damage
  
• absolutely no spread
  
• deals damage out to 810m (reduced beyond 270m)
  
• 900 flight speed

Yeah until you realize an SRM6 only weighs 5 tons with 2 tons of ammo (33 shots). While an AC/20 weighs 18 tons with 4 tons of ammo (28 shots).

The reality is that the SRM6 is by far the superior weapon.

Edited by Khobai, 09 March 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Gabriel Amarell]

OK, knocked up a little spreadsheet to illustrate my point here, (if anyone 1: actually reads this 2: is interested in the spreadsheet, and 3: knows how to post it, reply and I'll try to post it) so what is my point? My point is that by the numbers SRM's are not OP. So how did I come to that conclusion? By rating the weapons.

So, what do you want in a weapon? Good dmg/sec + good dmg/ton + good dmg/crit with low heat/sec. What are the clear winners here? Missiles (and of course Gauss, but the gauss heat/sec breaks my rating system so I will not comment on gauss) ahh, but are they really OP. I would argue they are not. Why?

I assume we can all agree that the plain jane regular old medium laser is a good benchmark, good dmg, decent range, low heat, low weight, 1 crit and infinite shots. There is a reason that so many canon mechs had them, they are almost perfectly ballanced IMO. and my scale gives them a rating of 8.75 so if you accept that as a baseline (and you may not, this is my own personal rating system for weapons) than anything that is higher is a awesom, and anythign that is lower needs some love. So, the non Artemis SRM-6 is a 16.25, the non Artemis SRM-4 is a freaking 22.08 how the hell are those not OP. They are shotgun wpns, they do not concentrate there Dmg.<

When you put Artemis on those weapons the SRM-4 + Artemis comes in at a much more reasonable 10.31, and the Artemis SRM-6, 10.00. If you are of the opinion (as I am) that SRM's are, or at least should only be competative with Artemis then they are 17% more powerful than medium lasers. If that is OP fine, nerf them, but only to the level of Medium lasers please, not below. What really needs some love IMO are the Autocannons, how bout a decrease in there recycle, maybe .25 seconds? a .25 decrease in the heat and an increase in Ammo/ton to compensate for it?

Am I the only one who thinks the AC's are underwhelming especially considering how heavy/bulky they are? I realize they are concentrated dmg but WOW, they weight a ton and they take up a lot of space. If you wanna nerf SRM's fine but make it 2.35 dmg/missile and increase the non artemis spread, dont go overboard and make it 2.25. Artemis equipped SRM's are not OP. Its the fact that the A-1 Cat can mount 6 of them that make them feel OP. There was a reason SRM's and Medium Lasers were standard armament for so many mechs... They are supposed to be good weapons that almost any mech can carry.

Edited by Gabriel Amarell, 09 March 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[HarmAssassin]

I used to think that Splatcats were OP... until I built one. Yes, they are strong, but they really are easy to kill. I no longer fear seeing them on the battlefield. Having played them, I know exactly how they work, and how to take them out.

They only "work" at 1 range. 40m - that's the magic number. At 40m all missiles converge to hit one hit location (not 38m, not 42m, it has to be exactly 40m). That's why you frequently see them hold their fire until they get exactly 40m from you. That's how they're taking you out with their 90pt alpha strike, because that 90pts is to one hit location. Playing a Splatcat requires that you be able to sneak up on the enemy, because if they see you coming, you'll be dead before you get in range.

If you want to prevent yourself from being killed by a Splatcat, simply stay farther away than 40m. It really is that simple. If you let an enemy heavy mech get that close to you, without you seeing them coming, the fault is yours.

I'm far more concerned with the invincible light mechs running around the battlefield, or the 6 ER PPC stalkers that shut down after every volley than the Splatcat that is only effective if he can sneak up to within 40m.

While I'm on the topic, here's an idea... If a mech generates more than 120% heat - they should blow themselves up, not just shut down. That would end the 6 ER PPC builds running around.

And as for those that don't like references to Table Top Battletech... too bad. That's where this game came from. I'm sorry that you're too young to have played it, but a LOT of this games current problems could be solved simply by returning to TT values. Years of gaming and player feedback already went into it resulting in balanced gameplay. Deviating from canon is what's breaking this game.

They already compensated for mouse aiming by doubling armor on all mechs and having missiles hit torsos instead of arms/legs. They didn't need to also increase the damage of missiles past 2pts per SRM and 1pt per LRM. And why in the world did they reduce the heat of the larger weapons in this last patch. Now 6 ER PPC stalkers are showing up in every match. Even when they shut down for overheating, you can't kill them before they power back up and nail you for another 60pts of damage to one hit location. And before you compare that to a Splatcat - the Splatcat only does this at 40m, while the 6 ER PPC Stalker does this at every range out to several hundred meters.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 09 March 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Gunnisson]

FerretWithASpork, on 08 March 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Are you on crack? Lasers have 0 spread.. that's the point of a laser.. it's focused energy... missiles spread...

He was referring to lasers as weapons in light fights. Yes, lasers are focused energy, but over a period of time. Fighting lights, you'll find it near impossible to keep all the damage on one point over the firing duration, thereby spreading the damage over compartments, whereas streaks deliver damage in a single volley, keeping the damage more focused on a particular compartment.

[Sadato]

Firstly, I would have to agree in seeing a slight nerf to SRM and SSRM damage.

Reducing them to 2/missile would be a great start as although this would be hardly noticed on builds that only use one or two SRM racks, (Dragons, Hunchbacks etc) and only really be felt on builds that boat them.

On a Splat-cat this would reduce their alpha by a whopping 18 points of damage!


Secondly, I would also suggest the two following changes:

1. When more than ONE missile system is loaded into a single location (A1/C4 pods, D-DC left torso etc), the missiles are not all fired at once, but in volleys of one launcher at a time.

2. Limiting convergence at short ranges (Sub 50m) so that loadouts that have launchers in multiple locations and spread far apart (Stalker, Trebuchet, etc) cannot only hit a single location, meaning that the stalker that has just ran up to face hug you would be more likely to spread the damage out over your entire mech instead of coring you in one salvo.

I would even go as far as to say point 2 should apply to ALL weapon systems.

[Corvus Antaka]

current artemis spread might be a bit tight for SRMS.

Damage is fine when its only 1 or 2 launchers. stacking more just needs stiffer heat penalties, the big problem with the 4 or 6 SRM boats is the lack of heat issues they have.

[CHWarpath]

Az0r, on 05 March 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

Problem is there's no other really GOOD weapons for light vs light fights. Lasers spread too much. PPCs are too big/hot to fit, same with AC20/Gauss.

Sorry buddy there are no skill modules, your going to have to tough it out.

[Tuonela]

HarmAssassin, on 09 March 2013 - 08:48 PM, said:

They only "work" at 1 range. 40m - that's the magic number. At 40m all missiles converge to hit one hit location (not 38m, not 42m, it has to be exactly 40m).

You may be in for a surprise, SRMs converge exactly at 130 meters as well, to pinpoint accuracy.