46 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

Ialdabaoth, on 24 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Just make it a 10-slot weapon and the CAT can mount one per arm.

Except it's a 15-slot weapon, and PGI has thus far shown a determination not to change weights or critical space requirements from BT canon.

Even the CPLT-C3 Catapult, which mounts an Arrow IV system, splits the weapon between the Right Torso and the Right Arm (and only carries one ton of ammo).


Additionally, it should be noted that there exist several alternate Arrow IV munitions:

• Air Defense Arrow Missiles (implied to be some form of shrapnel/"flak" round): introduced in 3068
  
• Arrow IV Homing Missiles: recovered in 3045
  
• Arrow IV Non-Homing Missiles: recovered in 3044
  
• Cluster Arrow Missiles (standard bomblet dispenser): recovered in 3047
  
• Illumination Arrow Missiles (flare dispenser): recovered in 3047
  
• Laser-Inhibiting Arrow Missiles (dispenses a cloud that reduces the damage of any laser (and only laser fired into/through it by 2): introduced in 3053
  
• Inferno-IV Missiles (incendiary bomblet dispenser): introduced in 3055
  
• Smoke Arrow Missiles (smoke screen dispenser): recovered in 3044
  
• Thunder Arrow Missiles (landmine dispenser): recovered in 3051

[Ialdabaoth]

Strum Wealh, on 24 March 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Except it's a 15-slot weapon, and PGI has thus far shown a determination not to change weights or critical space requirements from BT canon.

This is the one case where they're going to either have to, or they're going to have to find a way to split crits between sections.

[Strum Wealh]

Ialdabaoth, on 24 March 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

This is the one case where they're going to either have to, or they're going to have to find a way to split crits between sections.

At which point, I would expect that the Devs would sooner simply say "no" and refuse to add the Arrow IV if they can't determine a satisfactory way to achieve location-splitting.

Changing the volume (criticals) and/or weight for one item opens up the slippery slope - and the attendant whine-fest - of people wanting AC/20s, AC/2s, Endo-Steel, DHS, and so on to be less bulky (fewer criticals) and/or lighter (less tonnage); it would be far easier and far safer in both the short term and the long term to not bother at all with the Arrow IV and other systems that absolutely require such flexible location splitting (e.g. two of the KGC variants both split their AC/20s in different ways - one of them has the majority of the guns' criticals in the arms and the remainder in the side-torsos, while the other one has the majority of the guns' criticals in the side-torsos and the remainder in the arms) if they can't find a way to adequately implement said location-splitting system.

[Azantia]

No reason not to have it...it is the AC 20 of missiles basically.

[Zordicron]

Need more maps first. The range on arrow would shoot to out of bounds across the map from home base on some of the ones we have now. You could make a mech with the smallest engine in the game and load up on ammo and just fire away at anything on the map.

[FerrolupisXIII]

I'd love to get my hands on a CPLT-C3, that's a real artillery boat! as some have said it's nearly impossible to fit two of the things, so it'd be hard to use. and require a lot of coordination. that'd make it a hell of a lot of fun.

unfortunately, one AMS in its current variation say SCREW YOU to the Arrow IV system

[Strum Wealh]

FerrolupisXIII, on 24 March 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

I'd love to get my hands on a CPLT-C3, that's a real artillery boat! as some have said it's nearly impossible to fit two of the things, so it'd be hard to use. and require a lot of coordination. that'd make it a hell of a lot of fun.

unfortunately, one AMS in its current variation say SCREW YOU to the Arrow IV system

Arrow IV missiles (along with Thunder LRMs (not to be confused with Thunderbolt LRMs), Flares, Swarm LRMs (and the later Swarm-I LRMs), and Mech Mortar shells (which are classified as a missile weapon)) are canonically immune to AMS.

The Arrow IV's trade-offs, however, were its substantial weight and bulk, low per-ton ammo count, 180-meter (6 hex) minimum range, and the absolute requirement** for a target to be illuminated with TAG (which, in turn, requires a spotter).

**"The Arrow IV Homing Missile does not make its own to-hit roll. Instead, the homing missile may only attack units that have been successfully designated by a friendly TAG unit in the turn of the missile’s arrival. If there are no successfully TAG-designated targets on the board when the missile arrives, the homing missile explodes harmlessly. (Undirected or misdirected Arrow IV Homing Missiles do not scatter.)" (Tactical Operations, pg. 354)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 25 March 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[Ph30nix]

as as i said in another post about these

Sure why not its not like it will travel fast enough to hit anything.


but i would love to have the utility varients of this thing... beam obscuring missle..... mine layer....

[Nathan Foxbane]

Ph30nix, on 02 May 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

as as i said in another post about these

Sure why not its not like it will travel fast enough to hit anything.


but i would love to have the utility varients of this thing... beam obscuring missle..... mine layer....

It is slaved to the TAG system (homing missiles only) and as a missile artillery system has an extreme ballistic arc. The short of it is if it is TAG'd Arrow IV can hit it.

Honestly I would love the Arrow IV, but as a high value support system that you do not want to risk in battle (putting it on a 'Mech helps keep it very mobile and away from combat). It probably has no place in the game except maybe as a consumable. Particularly with mine fields LRMs are lighter, more compact, and can be used almost indiscriminately because they have more ammo per ton over all. They are also much cheaper than a single Arrow IV system.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 02 May 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Nathan Foxbane, on 02 May 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Honestly I would love the Arrow IV, but as a high value support system that you do not want to risk in battle (putting it on a 'Mech helps keep it very mobile and away from combat). It probably has no place in the game except maybe as a consumable. Particularly with mine fields LRMs are lighter, more compact, and can be used almost indiscriminately because they have more ammo per ton over all. They are also much cheaper than a single Arrow IV system.

I've considered the module solution and I cannot support it. Then the Arrow IV is reduced to another single shot, weightless, critslot-less, underwhelming off map support option. We've got two distinct types of that already, and neither is very impressive or useful. Those need improvement. We don't need another.

I would like to see more indirect fire options (shout out to mech mortars). I would like to see more weapon options. I would especially like to see more missile options (three basic types of missiles and NARC for goodness sake). I'd like to see more weapons that directly benefit from teamwork (LRMs currently being the only practical example). I'd like to see another use for TAG. I'd like builds to be more varied and interesting. I'd like to see more specialized builds instead of boats that are effective at all ranges. When alternate ammo is implemented, I'd like to see a weapons system that would have many different and interesting options. Implementing the Arrow IV would realize all of these things.

[Sephlock]

I want it to be like the Javelin from Call of Duty >.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Adridos, on 06 March 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'd much rather see the Arrow IVs than made up arty strikes you have no way of shutting down.

Besides just moving away from the obvious red smoke, of course.

[Theodor Kling]

Zharot, on 02 May 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

Besides just moving away from the obvious red smoke, of course.

Not everyone can That´s why I target low engine rating snipers with it.

[xengk]

Add a pilot skill to allow player to upgrading the weakling artillery to Arrow IV.

Pop the red smoke and the enemy team goes" oh incoming artillery. meh", seconds later they see several Arrow IV flying their way and they bend over to kiss their metal bottom good bye.

[EvilCow]

It would be a good idea to replace the consumable with the Arrows, the standard ammo would be "normal", special ammo types (cluster etc) could be consumable: CB or MC (but please no differences...).

[FrostCollar]

EvilCow, on 03 May 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

It would be a good idea to replace the consumable with the Arrows, the standard ammo would be "normal", special ammo types (cluster etc) could be consumable: CB or MC (but please no differences...).

If Arrow IV was a consumable you'd still need a TAG to guide it in.

I, for one, think that would be a good thing. Still, I'd prefer if it were actually equippable.

[DeadlyNerd]

Arrow IV will basically turn the atlas into a mech with 2 AC/20 where 1 is a direct hit weapon and the other is s homing missile.
Oh oh, better, an awesome with dual homing AC/20.
Not done yet! Poptart highlander with homing AC/20.

No thx.

[FrostCollar]

DeadlyNerd, on 04 May 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Arrow IV will basically turn the atlas into a mech with 2 AC/20 where 1 is a direct hit weapon and the other is s homing missile.
Oh oh, better, an awesome with dual homing AC/20.
Not done yet! Poptart highlander with homing AC/20.

No thx.

You can't poptart the Arrow IV - it needs a TAG to lock on and might have other firing restrictions. That's one of the things I most like about potentially adding the Arrow IV - to realize its full range and make it most effective you need teamwork but would be generously rewarded for doing so.

What's your point, anyways? If an Awesome concievably filled up both its side torsos and potentially parts of its arms with two fifteen-ton weapons with a scant five shots per ton, weapons that cannot fire without aid of a TAG (or maybe a NARC) and that like all missiles have a significant travel time, then of course it would be powerful.

If the AC/20 is such a problem, then why aren't you rallying against AC/20 Jagerbombs? Why would a poptart ever take an Arrow IV over a Gauss, PPC, or (dare I say) an AC/20?

Edited by FrostCollar, 04 May 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[EvilCow]

The damage could not be focused but spread on various sections, so very unlike a dual AC20. Just matter of designing the weapon carefully.

[DeadlyNerd]

EvilCow, on 04 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The damage could not be focused but spread on various sections, so very unlike a dual AC20. Just matter of designing the weapon carefully.

It's 1 big armor punching rocket. How on earth are you going to design a splash effect for that?

FrostCollar, on 04 May 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

You can't poptart the Arrow IV - it needs a TAG to lock on and might have other firing restrictions. That's one of the things I most like about potentially adding the Arrow IV - to realize its full range and make it most effective you need teamwork but would be generously rewarded for doing so.

What's your point, anyways? If an Awesome concievably filled up both its side torsos and potentially parts of its arms with two fifteen-ton weapons with a scant five shots per ton, weapons that cannot fire without aid of a TAG (or maybe a NARC) and that like all missiles have a significant travel time, then of course it would be powerful.

If the AC/20 is such a problem, then why aren't you rallying against AC/20 Jagerbombs? Why would a poptart ever take an Arrow IV over a Gauss, PPC, or (dare I say) an AC/20?

So you're saying that a dual AC20 jager is far worse than a mech that can fire across the map? THE WHOLE MAP, and then some.
Why take arrow over gauss? Maybe due to the fact that you don't have to compensate for projectile speed? Although, your point is mute as arrow is a missile weapon, not a ballistic, or even energy.

Significant travel time? So you're going to say "**** you physics, I'm going to make a slow rocket, because it's balance."? It's bad enough that ballistics aren't near instant hit. ***** 16th century cannons.
Yeah, go on, make it a slow mover. See how useful(read useless) the weapon turns out.