242 replies to this topic

[Obeast]

So much anger and hate.....

I can, have and will spend money on this game. BUT I do not agree on MC items being superior to C-Bill versions. Just for the simple fact that it is P2W. Especially when we were clearly told this game would NOT be P2W during the Founder's sale. That is just downright poor business practice.
Yes, I will concede baddies will still be bad and they will have a cbill/MC crutch coolant flush to lean on. I will also concede that the difference between the coolant flush modules is almost negligible. I will also concede, the P2W door has been opened, and IMO no good can come from it.
IMO Camos, boosts, cockpit fluff are a great way to get a revenue stream. Also, I would be willing to pay a subscription price for permanent premium time, 1500/MC month and perhaps private servers down the road.
Hero mechs, are a bit trickier to balance and honestly I think they have done a pretty good job in that aspect so far.

[Protection]

KingCobra, on 06 March 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Pay2WIN or no Pay2Win does not matter if the game stays as it is i cant see anyone getting rich off of it at PGI/IGP which are the same people except a few becouse the game really becoumes un-fun real fast no real content and no progression.Nothing to keep and hold new players for long these are the worst of the truth and Pay2Win items are the least of MWO'S problems.

No, Pay2Win items are the cause of MWO'S problems.

[Lyrik]

I look forward to the actual numbers and implentation. AND then I will see if affects my matches.

And if it is not good then I will play some other games.

[Matt Minus]

WolvesX, on 06 March 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

In fact I invested 120$ into the game so far...also http://mwomercs.com/...00000-c-billls/

The fact that you consider buying viedogames an "investment" might be part of the reason you're so poor.

[Fiachdubh]

Super Mono, on 06 March 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

I look forward to you defending upcoming and more powerful premium modules in the future!

If I felt they were P2W modules I would not defend them but I think that the coolant flush system is not in any way P2W, if someone has to rely on them regularly they clearly do not have good firing discipline so it will not help them much anyway. Besides you can buy it with c-bills. The MC one taking up one slot less is hardly a much of an advantage. If you could not win without coolant flushes you will still not win with them.

The premium tanks in WoT that were not affected by regular rounds, now they are P2W and the reason I stopped playing it. Would not stand for that type of system.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 06 March 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

Kmieciu, on 06 March 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

Yeah, how about 8 scurbs using D-DCs and 3Ls all with 4x Tier 3 consumables (Cooling, Artillery, Airstrike, UAV). Please tell me they don`t have distinct advantage...

Maybe we should wait until community warfare when those scubs conquer all the best planets...

Will we actually have a Community Warfare?

[StalaggtIKE]

Matt Minus, on 06 March 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

The fact that you consider buying viedogames an "investment" might be part of the reason you're so poor.

As a founder, it was an investment. Or you can look at it like this, he is among those that bought copies for you, I and others.

[Rizzwind]

Fiachdubh, on 06 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

If I felt they were P2W modules I would not defend them but I think that the coolant flush system is not in any way P2W, if someone has to rely on them regularly they clearly do not have good firing discipline so it will not help them much anyway. Besides you can buy it with c-bills. The premium tanks in WoT that were not affected by regular rounds, now they are P2W and the reason I stopped playing it. Would not stand for that type of system.

and here again the point is missed. its not about the items themselves. it's about the fact the CB users have to use up more space then the MC users giving them an ADV over them.

[Obeast]

PurpleNinja, on 06 March 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Will we actually have a Community Warfare?

Pretty sure we have it already....on the forums....

[Wispsy]

KingCobra, on 06 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Well HERO why dont you change accounts with me Mr Elite Founder? it would seem your not that poor and im sure you have many other paid items on your account? so your point it mute to one who has less on there account?

I got this game as a gift...anyway even if they give mc income for cw so people like me can buy p2win advantage to their hearts content along with more affluent people I would still be against it...

I do not think coolant flush will make much of a difference, but in a game in which most mechs have 2-3 module slots when mastered they have clearly made the first mc only consumable better then the first cbill only consumables. This does not lead me to believe they will really be all that vigilant in keeping this game from being p2w. What is more, as it is only a small advantage people are happily convincing themselves that it is not really p2w even though it very clearly is. I guess they will just keep pushing in more p2w advantages over time seeing how much they can get away with, letting people adjust to the new level of spending required then push it higher.

I had such high hopes for this game when they told us their plans at the start No 3rdperson they say, no p2w they say, it was like a dream come true and now they just push it out slowly instead lol Yeah this might be the whole extent of p2w, but with their first item obviously better I cannot see them not going for more easier money...

[Orzorn]

Lyrik, on 06 March 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

I look forward to the actual numbers and implentation. AND then I will see if affects my matches.

And if it is not good then I will play some other games.

It will affect your matches. We already have enough information to glean that.

Tier 1 + 2 = Tier 3, oh sure, but the module slot you lose makes all the world.

Wheras the guy with gold flush can also get gold arty or air strikes, you can't, assuming 2 slots. Or even if he had 3, he can get gold flush, gold arty, and then a module of his choice. You will ALWAYS be down a consumable, or if you aren't (you took flush tier 2 and air strike tier 2, and a module of your choice), yours will be less effective.

I don't know about you, but playing always knowing that the other guy could have an edge on your just ruins my competitive mood. If matchmaking is supposed to give equal skilled opponents, great, that means any edge that guy gets puts him over me by some margin.

It puts the sourest taste in one's mouth, and personally, it drains me of any competitive spirit I had regarding this game.

[Super Mono]

Fiachdubh, on 06 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

If I felt they were P2W modules I would not defend them but I think that the coolant flush system is not in any way P2W, if someone has to rely on them regularly they clearly do not have good firing discipline so it will not help them much anyway. Besides you can buy it with c-bills. The premium tanks in WoT that were not affected by regular rounds, now they are P2W and the reason I stopped playing it. Would not stand for that type of system.

You're going to get stomped by people that can make full use of coolant flush. You'll have to get coolant flush yourself to compete with the damage they can deal. At that point you'll be fully into the pay2win arms race and PGI will escalate it with better and more powerful premium modules.

[Orzorn]

Matt Minus, on 06 March 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

The fact that you consider buying viedogames an "investment" might be part of the reason you're so poor.

Funding games that need money to get off the ground is an investment, the return is in the form of a game.

Buying games that already are on the market are not an investment, at least not in the particular game, really, because the product you desire is already there.

[Livewyr]

Question:

Assuming we maintain the consumable coolant pod (for the sake of argument, and because we will likely maintain it anyways)

How would you suggest PGI make the MC pod worth buying compared to the Cbill one.

(Spending money only on cosmetics will not keep PGI afloat for the costs of this game...especially now that you can buy them permanently...so don't give me "don't do it.")

[Rizzwind]

Wispsy, on 06 March 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I got this game as a gift...anyway even if they give mc income for cw so people like me can buy p2win advantage to their hearts content along with more affluent people I would still be against it...

I do not think coolant flush will make much of a difference, but in a game in which most mechs have 2-3 module slots when mastered they have clearly made the first mc only consumable better then the first cbill only consumables. This does not lead me to believe they will really be all that vigilant in keeping this game from being p2w. What is more, as it is only a small advantage people are happily convincing themselves that it is not really p2w even though it very clearly is. I guess they will just keep pushing in more p2w advantages over time seeing how much they can get away with, letting people adjust to the new level of spending required then push it higher.

I had such high hopes for this game when they told us their plans at the start No 3rdperson they say, no p2w they say, it was like a dream come true and now they just push it out slowly instead lol Yeah this might be the whole extent of p2w, but with their first item obviously better I cannot see them not going for more easier money...

I may not always agree with you on matters of Light mechs Wispsy. But I agree with your statement here.

[Fiachdubh]

Rizzwind, on 06 March 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

and here again the point is missed. its not about the items themselves. it's about the fact the CB users have to use up more space then the MC users giving them an ADV over them.

Yes as if being deprived of that extra slot to get an extra zoom magnification is going to be a game changer, If you cannot win without coolant you will not win with it so if anything they are being hampered by wasting one or two module slots. Such a minor difference does not, in my opinion at least, make it P2W.

CW has not even started yet so how about people wait and see how it affects the game before throwing their mice and joysticks down in hissy fits and filling the forums with rage and tears.

[Rizzwind]

Fiachdubh, on 06 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yes as if being deprived of that extra slot to get an extra zoom magnification is going to be a game changer, If you cannot win without coolant you will not win with it so if anything they are being hampered by wasting one or two module slots. Such a minor difference does not, in my opinion at least, make it P2W.

CW has not even started yet so how about people wait and see how it affects the game before throwing their mice and joysticks down in hissy fits and filling the forums with rage and tears.

why would you use zoom when you could add a Air strike or Adv targeting.

[Wispsy]

Rizzwind, on 06 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

I may not always agree with you on matters of Light mechs Wispsy. But I agree with your statement here.

How could you not agree with me on matters of light mechs? I am never wrong about that...

[Eddrick]

WolvesX, on 06 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

I think the moneymonkeys told him: "You shall make a cash cow item! Now! Or you WILL get fired and you get a new guy that is doing your job!"

Sounds like this may have been what happend.

I don't think a 15% heat dump/1 Modual Slot differance between the C-Bill and MC version is enough to be considered P2W. But, in the whinners defence. It is a step in that direction.

[Orzorn]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Question:

Assuming we maintain the consumable coolant pod (for the sake of argument, and because we will likely maintain it anyways)

How would you suggest PGI make the MC pod worth buying compared to the Cbill one.

Reduce all versions to a single tier. Normalize the c-bill cost, and also put an MC cost. You pay MC for the convenience of not using c-bills, or, rather, you are effectively purchasing c-bills with MC (because you don't spend those c-bills to buy the consumable, you can use them later on other things).

A purely free player can be on the same level as anyone else, but their income will lower if they purchase consumables every match. You could pull it off, but your income would suffer. Obviously, of course, you always run into the idea that its still pay 2 win because you couldn't afford to use 3 consumables every match (say, if a consumable cost 50,000, you'd have to make 150,000 every game just for consumables). The other side of the coin is to just not use a consumable unless you really need to, but that still isn't much of an excuse, because we already saw how poorly that worked out with XL engines back with R & R.

I'd rather we never had the idea of consumables, but if they're here to stay, I'd like them at least as I mentioned above, although it still entails its own problems.

Edit: Wait, is the cost of the c-bill versions really as low as 7500, as I just read?

If that is the case, then we wouldn't even those those problems as mentioned above. Normalize the cost to 10,000 or something, put an MC cost on it as well, and you'd lose out on 30,000 c-bills a game if you bought 3 consumables every game. Raise it even more if you want to make the MC purchase seem like a better deal, I don't care, so long as I can get the same version and still be able to play the game.

Quote

(Spending money only on cosmetics will not keep PGI afloat for the costs of this game...especially now that you can buy them permanently...so don't give me "don't do it.")

Dota 2 not only survives purely off of cosmetics (and account XP boosts, but account XP literally only unlocks more cosmetics and serves no gameplay purpose) , but thrives off of it.

Edited by Orzorn, 06 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.