242 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

talking bout pugmatches here, so spare your "IMPLIED" flame.
if you want to go competitive, be prepared to dump some bucks per month (meaning less bucks than you would pay for an mmo of your choice) into this game. its worth it. if your skillz are all that mighty you will now crush your opposition and refinance via cw income like in world of tanks.

Not at all. Wasn't an attempt at flaming. Having lower skills is nothing to be ashamed of. It's just boils down to a difference in perspective.

Edit: I in no way consider myself highly skilled. I just know a shutdown mech is a dead one. A skillful shooter would easily capitalize on this.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 06 March 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

Thontor, on 06 March 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I think Ohm gave up in light of Smurfy's doing the same thing and being automatically generated and quickly updated. Ohm's hasn't been updated in over a month.

Perhaps he did, but I prefer Ohm's quick reference over Smurfy's site.

[vonWeber]

StalaggtIKE, on 06 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Not at all. Wasn't an attempt at flaming. Having lower skills is nothing to be ashamed of. It's just boils down to a difference in perspective.

so dont be ashamed.
i stand by "implied flame", way to go. "everyone disaggreeing with me must have low skillz but thats nothing to be ashamed of, no flaming here!!!" rofl.

Edited by vonWeber, 06 March 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Aym]

Kudos to Wolves for posting this. I think more people that interact with the Devs will learn they're decent folk but have pressure from bosses who AREN'T game designers or in love with Battletech and Mechwarrior.

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

PANZERBUNNY, on 06 March 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

Juicing up to mountain dew before playing or an energy drink is pay to win...but it's an outside 3rd party source. Is that considered a "hack or "cheat"?

I actually like to grab a beer or to for my game, so I guess I'm Pay to Lose

[armyof1]

Bubba Wilkins, on 06 March 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

And it always amazes me when people immediately assume the worst possible scenario is the only logical outcome. PGI has already demonstrated that they will implement MC only items that are different and unique, but otherwise on par with their cbill counterparts. The fact that the majority of people are NOT running Hero mechs is a testament to the fact that they are very cognizant of the line they walk in this regard.

The argument in this case is NOT that the MC flush is equivalent to the Cbill versions, the true argument is that it is not a clear and obvious choice over all of the other modules and consumables currently known. Sure, some may elect to go the MC Flush route, but most of us will likely be equipping other modules for their advantages instead. Any LRM based mech would be foolish to waste a slot on the MC Flush when Sensor Range and Target Lock are damn near requirements. Other roles have similar issues with making room for the MC Flush.

In fact, the only builds which the flushes make any sense at all are the SRM Cats and PPC boats. Neither of which is going to gain much over their baseline performance.

The part where we disagree is that the line will already be crossed on the 19th. When you can let someone save a module slot and still get the same advantage by using MC compared to someone using CBills, the realm of P2W is already here. Do you really in all honesty think the tier 3 artillery and airstrikes will not in general be better than the CBill versions, when the coolant version has already been explained to be better? And you also don't think once this use MC and getter better stuff has started it will not just continue? I mean I admire your optimism, but that doesn't change the path MWO is walking towards.

[vonWeber]

armyof1, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

The part where we disagree is that the line will already be crossed on the 19th. When you can let someone save a module slot and still get the same advantage by using MC compared to someone using CBills, the realm of P2W is already here. Do you really in all honesty think the tier 3 artillery and airstrikes will not in general be better than the CBill versions, when the coolant version has already been explained to be better? And you also don't think once this use MC and getter better stuff has started it will not just continue? I mean I admire your optimism, but that doesn't change the path MWO is walking towards.

The part were i would disaggree is that there is an advantage in using the flushmodule vs other modules in the game right now at all.

[MaddMaxx]

Elizander, on 06 March 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

The issue with the coolant and MC consumables definitely pulls a negative reaction on first read. Perhaps if they made the MC version 30% compared to the C-bill version's total of 35% (15% + 20%) then it might not have been so bad, but regardless, if you look at it, it is difficult to bash a feature that we have not seen yet.

Why would anyone pay RL cash for a lesser version though? That makes little sense. Even the fact the Dev made them "equal" shows they knew folks would go absolutely NUTS if the MC version had even a 1% extra hit. (Despite going NUTS even before trying them)

Quote

My main issue is the effect it can have on high alpha mechs and we'll literally have Atlases getting cored in 6 seconds in the CT (or three dead light mechs). If it flushes slow then it should be okay. They can even make the MC version flush slower or something. Still, even with these things in mind, I haven't seen it yet and I haven't seen how it affects the game. I also know that if it has terrible implementation that PGI will most likely do something to adjust it.

Again. You can simply do the Math. Take one of your Hot Mechs, simulate a Flush load (MC or C-Bills based) then Max your Heat and hit Flush. At Over-Ride required Heat ranges, the Flush is 15%, then another quick 20%, or 1 @35%. It just isn't going to allow anyone to just Alpha over and over. The numbers don't don't line up. If someone want to Flush at 35% of max to allow them an Alpha they otherwise would have to wait 10s-15s for, good for them. I hope they don't miss.

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I'll reserve my judgement on it 'til a couple of weeks or so after implementation and I can't fault them for trying the "MC is an alternative option" route and they just happen to have a somewhat shaky start (though they should probably do a bit better in their communications when introducing future features that might rub the majority of vocal players the wrong way).

Wouldn't that be something if everyone did that eh! But then the Forum would not be the cesspool it is today right?

Quote

The fact that they priced it cheap (c-bills) (I think) means that it's not as bad as I initially thought. If it was anywhere near 30,000 or more then it would've horribly stunted the savings of non-paying players.

Quote

People will try these out and they will decide if the passive modules are competitive with the consumable ones. We'll see then, okay?

Agreed.

[StalaggtIKE]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

so dont be ashamed.
i stand by "implied flame", way to go. "everyone disaggreeing with me must have low skillz but thats nothing to be ashamed of, no flaming here!!!" rofl.

You have your tough guys and your overly sensitive ones. Oh, the joys of the internet... .

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 06 March 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Bubba Wilkins]

armyof1, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

The part where we disagree is that the line will already be crossed on the 19th. When you can let someone save a module slot and still get the same advantage by using MC compared to someone using CBills, the realm of P2W is already here. Do you really in all honesty think the tier 3 artillery and airstrikes will not in general be better than the CBill versions, when the coolant version has already been explained to be better? And you also don't think once this use MC and getter better stuff has started it will not just continue? I mean I admire your optimism, but that doesn't change the path MWO is walking towards.

We already know that that the only difference between the Cbill and MCbill versions of Art and Air are that the Cbill versions do more damage, but take longer for delivery. The MCbill versions do less damage, but arrive quicker. Personally, I prefer the higher potential damage.

And no, I don't think they will intentionally implement anything which is an outright Gold Ammo, P2W item. I think they are very aware that the community will lapse into severe decline the moment that balance is shattered in that fashion. We tend to make a lot of noise on the boards, but the only path to success is to maintain balance in the game so that we continue to enjoy it and so that the community will continue to grow and thrive.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Umm Did you guys not read that Artillery can be used once per match, I believe that means ONLY 1 Artillery strike per TEAM

So I wouldn't go so apeshit crazy, and the cbill version does MORE dmg.


I'm surprised people haven't bitched about premium accounts and the mech upgrades, those are unfair for new players as well.

SOmeone with speed tweak and turning upgrades is superior to plain mech.

Camo is also very good.

Edited by shad0w4life, 06 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[armyof1]

vonWeber, on 06 March 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

The part were i would disaggree is that there is an advantage in using the flushmodule vs other modules in the game right now at all.

Tell that to the Splatcat and PPC-Stalker users that will get those 2 extra alphas to kill you instead of over-heating and shutting down.

[Yokaiko]

shad0w4life, on 06 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Umm Did you guys not read that Artillery can be used once per match, I believe that means ONLY 1 Artillery strike per TEAM

So I wouldn't go so apeshit crazy, and the cbill version does MORE dmg.

Ok so you think that there are going to be teams in the 8 man queue that aren't packing 8 of them?

[Bubba Wilkins]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Ok so you think that there are going to be teams in the 8 man queue that aren't packing 8 of them?

So what if they are? From what has been stated, it almost sounds like only one person is going to get to utilize it on each side, or at a minimum there is a team cooldown involved to prevent group spamming.

[vonWeber]

StalaggtIKE, on 06 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

You have your tough guys and your overly sensitive ones. Oh, the joys of the internet... .

so which one would you be? cant be this though getting all sweated over 35% more onetime usable heat dissipation at the cost of one module slot.
if you want to play competitive and thus spending a great deal of time in a game you enjoy spending 10 bucks a month seems like a reasonable investment, dont you think?

armyof1, on 06 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Tell that to the Splatcat and PPC-Stalker users that will get those 2 extra alphas to kill you instead of over-heating and shutting down.

provided they didnt use it already and are now at a disadvantage vs me using passive modules. but yeah, we will see.

[armyof1]

Bubba Wilkins, on 06 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

We already know that that the only difference between the Cbill and MCbill versions of Art and Air are that the Cbill versions do more damage, but take longer for delivery. The MCbill versions do less damage, but arrive quicker. Personally, I prefer the higher potential damage.

And no, I don't think they will intentionally implement anything which is an outright Gold Ammo, P2W item. I think they are very aware that the community will lapse into severe decline the moment that balance is shattered in that fashion. We tend to make a lot of noise on the boards, but the only path to success is to maintain balance in the game so that we continue to enjoy it and so that the community will continue to grow and thrive.

The airstrikes/artillery we will see how they will be implemented, if it's too slow and just about everyone can run away from it, it doesn't matter how powerful it is. What I find amazing is how you can see that MC coolant is clearly superior compared to the CBill version and still expect the MC artillery/airstrike NOT be superior to the CBill versions.

[Heeden]

armyof1, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

The part where we disagree is that the line will already be crossed on the 19th. When you can let someone save a module slot and still get the same advantage by using MC compared to someone using CBills, the realm of P2W is already here. Do you really in all honesty think the tier 3 artillery and airstrikes will not in general be better than the CBill versions, when the coolant version has already been explained to be better? And you also don't think once this use MC and getter better stuff has started it will not just continue? I mean I admire your optimism, but that doesn't change the path MWO is walking towards.

If the line is crossed on March 19th, it's only because it was crossed when the first hero mech was launched.

[vonWeber]

at least it is the first real MICROtransaction stuff in the game. thats kind of sad, ill give you that.

[Hamm3r]

Kunae, on 06 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

My god.


NO IT CAN'T BE "USED TWICE"!!!!

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2006724



Seriously, how many times, by how many devs, does this need to be said before people's reading comprehension rises to the level of chimpanzees?!

Ok ok Hang on, I think EVERYBODY, (Yes you too Kunae before you go insulting everybody's reading abilities), needs to re-read that post. Look at the 3rd tier one again....ok....now look at the other two.....notice a difference?? No no no Other then the percentages and CBills vs. MC.....

It looks like the other two can be COMBINED giving a 35% flush, same as the MC one...I just noticed that, the MC 35% specifically says it cannot be used with the other two.

That's the problem with things like this in general, everybody just picks and chooses which parts they read and flies off the handle in either direction without comprehending the whole thing.

Edited by Hamm3r, 06 March 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Heeden, on 06 March 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

If the line is crossed on March 19th, it's only because it was crossed when the first hero mech was launched.

None of the hero mechs are so much as the most powerful in their chassis. Nor do you have to re-buy them when they get blown up.

There is a distinct difference.

Hamm3r, on 06 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Ok ok Hang on, I think EVERYBODY needs to re-read that post. Look at the 3rd tier one again....ok....now look at the other two.....notice a difference?? No no no Other then the percentages and CBills vs. MC.....

It looks like the other two can be COMBINED giving a 35% flush, same as the MC one...I just noticed that, the MC 35% specifically says it cannot be used with the other two.

Also correct. However, its still MC only.