239 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

Stone Profit, on 06 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I never said they wouldnt have an advantage /facepalm. Jesus l2read people. I said they wouldnt NEED IT. Sheesh

Well they do need it.

because if one player doesn't have it he can no longer pump as much damage out as his enemy that does have it.,

He now needs coolant flush to keep up.

A good players build has a trade off between burst and sustained dps on his mech.

Most good builds have high burst and middling sustained dps because the first part of an engagement with enemy forces sets the pace of battle and more importantly if you can kill an enemy mech or two quickly you remove a huge chunk of the enemy forces battle capability.
Coolant flush allows you to sustain that high burst damage 1-2 salvos longer enabling burst dps builds to be far more powerful whilst making little difference to builds that work on high sustained dps.

[MaddMaxx]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Incorrect assumption.

A good player that knows heat management AND has way to dump heat at will has an advantage against just heat management.

...from a someone who usually runs 1.2-1.3 on the heat scale.

where did you get that "at will" idea? Any player carrying a Flush consumable will have 1 of 2 choices.

A) 1@15% + 1@20%

or

1 @35%.

This whole "Flush at will" BS has to stop. It is a lie and will not be possible. Stop making **** up please and stick to the facts. (^&*%)

[Sedant]

MonkeyCheese, on 06 March 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

The problem is once we all walk down this MC only item road there is no going back, sure this coolant thing may seem small now but wait until the real paying for larger advantages comes.

I shall state it once again, pandoras box has been opened.

OMG its not MC only. People need to open they're damn eyes and read.

Small Coolant Flush

1 module slot.
1 use per match.
Consumed when used.
15% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
5,000 CB per use.
Only one can be equipped.

Medium Coolant Flush

1 module slot.
1 use per match.
Consumed when used.
20% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
7,500 CB per use.
Only one can be equipped.

Large Coolant Flush

1 module slot.
1 use per match.
Consumed when used.
35% of total heat sink efficiency is cooled when used.
25 MC per use.
Only one can be equipped.
Can't be equipped if Small or Medium Cooling flush are currently equipped.

[vrok]

Livewyr, on 06 March 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Ilya should be P2W by numbers too.. shall I fabricate a situation where the Ilya beats everything?

Too easy.

Ilya versus any mech at 600 meters: weapons don't Jam, Ilya wins. (almost 15 DPS..sustainable...at range)
That's Pay 2 Win.. in that situation
But the Ilya is not P2W...

Is the Ilya better than the Cataphract 4X? Yes
However, being Pay 2 Win is speculation.


Is the MC pod better than the Cbill Pod? Yes
However: Being Pay 2 Win is speculation as well..

Even if we for the sake of argument suppose that everything you assume here is correct (which it isn't), you're comparing something with hundreds of variables vs something with a single variable. That is why one is a grey area and the other is not. Hero mechs can be P2W, the MC coolant flush is always P2W.

Edited by vrok, 06 March 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Orzorn]

MaddMaxx, on 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

where did you get that "at will" idea? Any player carrying a Flush consumable will have 1 of 2 choices.

A) 1@15% + 1@20%

or

1 @35%.

This whole "Flush at will" BS has to stop. It is a lie and will not be possible. Stop making **** up please and stick to the facts. (^&*%)

At will means being able to choose when you do it.

You know, like "Fire at will".

I have no idea what you're talking about there. Do you think he was saying you got to pick the amount you dumped? I really don't know what you're going on about.

[Kdogg788]

Seriously guys, clear the ledges you don't have to jump!

Let's all see how coolant flush actually works before jumping to conclusions. Remember that in its MC variant, it is a ONE time use, so it will not save you from yourself if you don't practice firing discipline. Also, it will not likely be instantaneous but require a cooling time in order to function so it will probably not be able to be used to desperation situations.

-k

[Orzorn]

Sedant, on 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

OMG its not MC only. People need to open they're damn eyes and read.

Large Coolant Flush
25 MC per use.

I'm sorry, what?

Large coolant flush is MC only. You can ONLY get it with an MC purchase.

[MaddMaxx]

Budor, on 06 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Well if same cooling or 2x less is worth the same as another module of your desire than it may be equal to you...

I would ask you how many of your Mechs are currently Mastered, and have the extra Module unlocked and how many currently are FULL of very expensive Modules, but I suspect you would not be honest with your response. That is why you keep using that same lame argument. More used Slots!

Think about that. Will using up a Module slot that you do not current consume, be such a bad thing?

Edited by MaddMaxx, 06 March 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Ghostrider0067]

MaddMaxx, on 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

where did you get that "at will" idea? Any player carrying a Flush consumable will have 1 of 2 choices.

A) 1@15% + 1@20%

or

1 @35%.

This whole "Flush at will" BS has to stop. It is a lie and will not be possible. Stop making **** up please and stick to the facts. (^&*%)

He's not lying. It's true that the person with CF *does* have the opportunity to dump heat at will - as in, when he CHOOSES to dump. He never stated you could repeatedly dump heat over and over again. No need to argue semantics.

It's up to the user of CF to decide if and when a dump is most appropriate to change the outcome of an engagement. Too early and you waste it. Too late and odds are you're toast. Careful tactical planning will be required to make the most of that once-per-match use.

[Orzorn]

Kdogg788, on 06 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Also, it will not likely be instantaneous but require a cooling time in order to function so it will probably not be able to be used to desperation situations.

Quote

• Small Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 15%.
  
• Medium Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a BattleMech's current heat by 20%.
  
• Large Coolant Flush will instantly reduce a Battlemech's current heat by 35%

[Radbane]

I rather meet a mech with MC bought coolant than one with ECM!

.... just saying.

[Pihoqahiak]

Padic, on 06 March 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I hope I am never obligated to use consumables. They do not appeal to me at all. If other pilots want to pay for mana potions, I'm not passionate enough about it to campaign to stop them.

Then you will likely be choosing to play with a handicap and at a disadvantage compared to the players who effectively use those consumables. That's your choice of course, but don't delude yourself into thinking that choice is anything other than giving potential advantage to your opponent. I doubt casual play will see a huge amount of consumable usage after it's been in play for a while, but in competitive play they will be used extensively. That's one thing I find interesting (and concerning) with this situation. PGI is basically targeting the competitive player base with consumables, not the larger players base of casual players. I'm curious to see what player created tournament organizers do to try and regulate consumable usage, although it will be difficult to do so since they have no way to know what modules someone equips currently.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 06 March 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Null Signature]

Sedant, on 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

OMG its not MC only. People need to open they're damn eyes and read.

It IS MC only, and you liked your own post, which includes the data that shows it's MC only. Not sure what to make of this.

[KingCobra]

Kdogg788, on 06 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Seriously guys, clear the ledges you don't have to jump!

Let's all see how coolant flush actually works before jumping to conclusions. Remember that in its MC variant, it is a ONE time use, so it will not save you from yourself if you don't practice firing discipline. Also, it will not likely be instantaneous but require a cooling time in order to function so it will probably not be able to be used to desperation situations.

-k

Look i dont give a CRAPPPP one way or another about the coolent pods and many dont eather untill we start playing leagues and planitary.It really only matters if we all have something to really fight over like bragging rights for real team or solo play with actual cash prizes or championships trophys.Untill then who gives a dammmm its just one big FFA right now.MWO is a Mechwarrior Farse compared to the old PC games even TT is more exciting and less repetitive.

[Monsoon]

Aphoticus, on 06 March 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Two, I say, 2 hexppc blast instead of one!!!! Pull out the plug, game over, man. Why don't you put her in charge!

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seriously, I'm not even looking at coolant flush, not even for my hot-running mechs. Air Strikes and Artillery look soooo much more appealing to me. So go ahead, buy a 35% coolant flush, let's see how P2W that is when fiery death rains from above...

Edited by Monsoon, 06 March 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Kdogg788]

Here's a little math few people have considered for whatever reason:

1 Large Coolant Flush = 25 MC x 12 = 300MC
1 Mech Bay = 300MC

Which is going to get actual in game use? If anyone really uses MC coolant flush, especially on a regular basis, I'd be shocked. The other more useful consumables are not tiered like this and in the big picture most competitive players WILL NOT be using module slots on coolant flush as they would be more likely to employ more useful passive module boosts instead which last all game. People are acting like coolant flush recycles endlessly like a PPC.

-k

[Livewyr]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Incorrect.
[/i]
A x2 UAC x2 AC5-4x has highter DPS also assuming the weapons don't jam. Likewise the x4 AC2 does higher DPS..period, assuming the target is dumb enouught to stand there
See above
Not always.
However, being Pay 2 Win is speculation.
You just said it, its better and its MC only. That is pay to win.

I just bolded it.. did you just say "being Pay to Win is speculation" ?
I just wanted to confirm it...

[Budor]

MaddMaxx, on 06 March 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I would ask you how many of your Mechs are currently Mastered, and have the extra Module unlocked and how many currently are FULL of very expensive Modules, but I suspect you would not be honest with your response. That is why you keep using that same lame argument. More used Slots!

Think about that. Will using up a Module slot that you do not current consume, be such a bad thing?

I got 28 26 mechs, sold some that had master slots unlocked. All fully fitted. All are mastered and have the module slot unlocked. At least 1 mastered mech of every chassi available. I sit on 250mil and 110k gxp and do not know what to do with it. I was sitting at roughly 300m but equipped 9 mechs with modules, those i run the most.

The 4 mechs i run allthetime have full modules. 4/3/3/3. I wouldnt want to miss even 1 but i will because i will NEED coolant because every non-bad wil equip it. 35% heat is a major dmg-boost in the moment i need it the most.

The mc one is the best, no discussion, it allows me to equip 1 more module of my desire. By dev definition modules are endgame. Now endgame has been monetized. Active modules/consumables will give me the edge i need over players of my average skill. This is ********.

Edited by Budor, 06 March 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[Orzorn]

MaddMaxx, on 06 March 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Think about that. Will using up a Module slot that you do not current consume, be such a bad thing?

MaddMaxx, now you're doing exactly what I was talking about earlier. You're defending the mechanic, claiming it isn't Pay 2 Win (keeping in mind that that phrase is a hyperbole and speaks of purchasing advantages), and now saying "is it such a bad thing?"

You get an advantage. One module slot. It is a bad thing (especially when that other module slot could easily be filled with another consumable). I have one module right now, increased target information gathering. I could have easily bought another the other day when I have the c-bills (I converted XP when they had the deal on it a few weeks ago, so that is no issue). That's 2 modules. My Dragons have 3 module slots.

Using c-bill coolant flush at 35%, I'd only be able to use one module and one other consumable. Using MC purchased, I could have two passive modules, or a passive and a consumable, or two other consumables (Assuming you could use all three together, or that in the future they come out with more that can be used together).

I would always be at a disadvantage of one sort (15%) or another (one less module slot, which means one less module or consumable).

Its an advantage that someone pays for. Are you willing to at least admit that? It seems many here have, but continue to ask "is it really that bad?" The contention of myself and others like me is "Yes, it is that bad."

Edited by Orzorn, 06 March 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[Yokaiko]

MaddMaxx, on 06 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

where did you get that "at will" idea? Any player carrying a Flush consumable will have 1 of 2 choices.

A) 1@15% + 1@20%

or

1 @35%.

This whole "Flush at will" BS has to stop. It is a lie and will not be possible. Stop making **** up please and stick to the facts. (^&*%)

Ok so. In a pure pug how many games do you lose with a DC? I'll wager most, and there is a large body of evidence on these forums to back that up.

So if three guys get a kill because they didn't overheat and got the last shot on target that is a pretty big deal. EVERY single mech is a pretty big deal in an 8 man competitive game.