22 replies to this topic

[Circumnavigate]

Hey guys I am comparing the Jenner and the Raven and it seems that the Raven is pretty much a far better Mech, specifically the 3L with the ECM. Do you guys think that this is fair or that it should be balanced?

Personally I feel that the Jenner should have a larger gap between its top speed and the Raven 3L I think it only goes about 3 KPH faster right now.

Opinions?

[Voridan Atreides]

Well If you really want the better mech then the Raven 3L is the one to go for. However I would pick the Jenner just because I'm not too big of a fan of ECM mechs right now.

[Mercules]

Personally I feel that your post is way off base.

The only reason people run Ravens over Jenners is because the RVN-3L has ECM. That is the deciding factor. Otherwise the Jenner has several advantages over a Raven. Jenners don't need a boost, ECM needs to be brought back to TT efficiency instead of the overly powerful WMO interpretation.

[Voridan Atreides]

Before ECM came out the Jenner was the better mech.

[Vlad Ward]

The Jenner still has the higher performance ceiling; it's just not worth the risk/effort to achieve a lot of the time, especially in tournament play.

[sC4r]

if you take any jenner vs 2x or 4x raven jenner will rip either of them apart
if you take 3l raven vs jenner 3l will win in majority of fights BUT
if you take D or K variant of jenner you will be a lot better anti heavy striker... just hit their rear armor and get out

so if you want to be alpha male of lights go raven but if you like getting on nerves of big guys and you are up to some challenge go jenner

Edited by sC4r, 06 March 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[Obadiah333]

Jenner used to be the premier light and light hunter (well, the 4sp was the best light hunter until the engine nerf). After ECM, the raven trumps all. You can have good success against crappy Raven pilots (I killed 3 of them in one match yesterday with my Jenner k). However, vs a good Raven pilot, a 3L will probably stomp you pretty good. Like sC4r said, you can use Jenners to sneak attack big mechs and run away to good effect, but if you want to hunt/fight lights, you are better off with the 3L.

[Lyrik]

I didn't had the opportunity to test the jenner against the 3L with state rewind. I have more firepower and JJ... if I can score hits than the raven has some serieux problems ;-)

[Skaroth]

Obadiah333, on 06 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Jenner used to be the premier light and light hunter (well, the 4sp was the best light hunter until the engine nerf). After ECM, the raven trumps all. You can have good success against crappy Raven pilots (I killed 3 of them in one match yesterday with my Jenner k). However, vs a good Raven pilot, a 3L will probably stomp you pretty good. Like sC4r said, you can use Jenners to sneak attack big mechs and run away to good effect, but if you want to hunt/fight lights, you are better off with the 3L.

Yea, I prefer to play the Jenner over the Raven. I am getting better at dealing with the 3L in my Jenner but a good 3L pilot will beat me most times. The Jenner is a great scout because of speed and JJ. Before the recent JJ changes they were not viable because it took so long to get off the ground. Now the JJ's add so much mobility that it is tough for any mech to keep you targeted. This allows for a viable hit and run tactic that the Raven just does not have.

You won't do as much damage in a Jenner vs the 3L because you cannot "stay and fight" as well but you can be as viable to a team if you play well (I am referring to pugs and 4 mans, never tried 8's).

Thing is, I can't bring myself to play the Raven because it is cheese... it really is. I personally prefer the challenge of the more difficult mech and the satisfaction that, when I do well, it was skill and not cheese.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Even in a Raven 3L is is always better to lead the Jenner to some waiting friends. Less time wasted fighting something that can take you out. Then again I always believe in a fair fight, me and my unseen friends behind you.

[Mawai]

The Jenner is a great mech .. fun to drive with the jump jets and packing excellent speed, firepower and armor.

That said ... ECM is the trump card ... between equally skilled pilots the Raven-3L is better than any other light mech since it has speed, armor, firepower (SSRM) AND ECM ... the ECM protects from LRM and SSRM ... ECM protects nearby team mates ... and in any 1:1 match between equally skilled pilots the ECM prevents the use of SSRM against the Raven-3L.

Personally, I have mastered 3 Jenners but only the first tier of the 3L. There are two reasons for this ... 1) I really dislike the look of the Raven ... I don't enjoy playing it and 2) Driving the Raven 2X and 4X in order to level up the 3L feels like I am letting the team down since they aren't very effective.

Overall, the balance of the light mechs is a problem.

Raven-3L > Jenners + Commando-2D > Spiders + Commandos

ECM + SSRM on the 2D can make it about as effective as a Jenner ... usually the Jenner will win due to the lighter armor on the Commando. Spiders are amazingly fun to drive ... they almost fly at times ... but they have much less firepower than the other light mechs for the most part. Most of the other Commando variants can also be fun to play but they are slower, not as well armored and have less firepower as well though they do have a smaller profile.

This all derives from two characteristics ... the smaller light mechs have fewer hard points AND in the light mech class ... a 5 ton difference is really significant ... the performance difference between 30 and 35 is much larger than 65 to 70 or 80 to 85 for example. Tonange is a significant factor in overall light mech performance and until they introduce match tonnage limits where it might encourage use of a Commando to save the 10 tons over a jenner ... then it is usually better to stick to the heavier light mechs since it is in the same class but has fewer drawbacks.

Edited by Mawai, 06 March 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[Thatnanoguy]

Ive been using jenner lately. In the hands of a skilled pilot, 3Ls cower in fear. Did over 800 damage, got 6 kills, killed a 3L and an ECM cicada and my team was outnumbered by one. Jenner=Awesomesause. I will post a pic of the game for proof.

[borisof007]

sC4r, on 06 March 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

if you take any jenner vs 2x or 4x raven jenner will rip either of them apart
if you take 3l raven vs jenner 3l will win in majority of fights BUT
if you take D or K variant of jenner you will be a lot better anti heavy striker... just hit their rear armor and get out

so if you want to be alpha male of lights go raven but if you like getting on nerves of big guys and you are up to some challenge go jenner

This is quite accurate actually.

I mastered my Jenners before ECM. My founders Jenner with 2 SRM 4's and 4 Medium Lasers really mess up heavies and assaults, and I can even hold my own against some mediums. 300 XL engine makes it a hard target to hit.

[Pancakeman]

Thatnanoguy, on 06 March 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Ive been using jenner lately. In the hands of a skilled pilot, 3Ls cower in fear. Did over 800 damage, got 6 kills, killed a 3L and an ECM cicada and my team was outnumbered by one. Jenner=Awesomesause. I will post a pic of the game for proof.

Assuming the Pilot in the 3L has never played Mechwarrior before.

[Thatnanoguy]

Pancakeman, on 06 March 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Assuming the Pilot in the 3L has never played Mechwarrior before.

We had a ice little duel, but I got the jump on him when he was looking at a teamate of mine and ripped his side torso out with my 2 srm4's before he knew what hit him. Then it was just a matter of time before I popped his gleaming unarmored torso Jenner skills ftw.

Edited by Thatnanoguy, 06 March 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Skaroth]

Pancakeman, on 06 March 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Assuming the Pilot in the 3L has never played Mechwarrior before.

Yea, I eat up bad raven pilots in my Jenner (or any other mech for that matter). Though I think a lot of the good light pilots are piloting other things (instead of the 3L) for much the same reason as me... there is no challenge and no internal reward for success (yay I won because of cheese... just doesn't really make you feel good).

[focuspark]

RVN-3L is a superior mech to most other mechs. Simply put it is too good.

[Lykaon]

Honestly this is more a matter of equipment ballance than chassis ballance.

The Jenner performs extremely well against other light mechs once the interaction of streaks and ECM is out of the picture.

Currently when I do pilot a Jenner it's my founders and I use it almost excusivley as a hunter killer to take down enemy fire support.The real challenge is getting to the target if the enemy force includes ECM+Streak equiped lights.

If/When ECM and streaks are addressed properly and brought more in line with other game features the Jenner will likely make a come back as a skirmisher/harraser mech while the ECM lights will likely be used for a more dedicated recon platform.

[sizz0r]

Mawai, on 06 March 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

The Jenner is a great mech .. fun to drive with the jump jets and packing excellent speed, firepower and armor.

That said ... ECM is the trump card ... between equally skilled pilots the Raven-3L is better than any other light mech since it has speed, armor, firepower (SSRM) AND ECM ... the ECM protects from LRM and SSRM ... ECM protects nearby team mates ... and in any 1:1 match between equally skilled pilots the ECM prevents the use of SSRM against the Raven-3L.

Personally, I have mastered 3 Jenners but only the first tier of the 3L. There are two reasons for this ... 1) I really dislike the look of the Raven ... I don't enjoy playing it and 2) Driving the Raven 2X and 4X in order to level up the 3L feels like I am letting the team down since they aren't very effective.

Overall, the balance of the light mechs is a problem.

Raven-3L > Jenners + Commando-2D > Spiders + Commandos

ECM + SSRM on the 2D can make it about as effective as a Jenner ... usually the Jenner will win due to the lighter armor on the Commando. Spiders are amazingly fun to drive ... they almost fly at times ... but they have much less firepower than the other light mechs for the most part. Most of the other Commando variants can also be fun to play but they are slower, not as well armored and have less firepower as well though they do have a smaller profile.

This all derives from two characteristics ... the smaller light mechs have fewer hard points AND in the light mech class ... a 5 ton difference is really significant ... the performance difference between 30 and 35 is much larger than 65 to 70 or 80 to 85 for example. Tonange is a significant factor in overall light mech performance and until they introduce match tonnage limits where it might encourage use of a Commando to save the 10 tons over a jenner ... then it is usually better to stick to the heavier light mechs since it is in the same class but has fewer drawbacks.

A really good description of the light mech situation.

i like to play my non ecm commando's and generally lights but atm im thinking about going back to the 3L with a srm6 instead of streaks --> same speed, more firepower, 50% more armor, ecm...
but i guess my poor little TDK won't forgive me if i do that :-(

[Butane9000]

Until the 3L came along with it's ECM the 2X and 4X paled in comparison to the Jenner. However Jenners can still give 3L's a run for their money.