98 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

Noth, on 06 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

I'll be here till I get bored of the game. Leave, then come backa bit later, play until I get bored of the game and repeat. The game had no code written for it a little over a year ago. Most games would have 2-3 mechs and a single basic plain map for testing. This game is extremely good and far along for being so young and being made by a small company. If you expect it to have everything a game that has been out on the market for a couple years has, you really need to get your perception in line.

BTW, the prices will change if they are not pulling enough money. However, so far it all points to that they are pulling in enough money.

Ignoring the rest of your inane post about your personal habits i didn't ask for and no one cares about, how does introducing pay to win point to them getting enough money?

[Noth]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

Ignoring the rest of your inane post about your personal habits i didn't ask for and no one cares about, how does introducing pay to win point to them getting enough money?

The only thing remotely pay to win is the consumables, which in all honestly won't make them that much money as they are so cheap. Their money makers will continue to be premium, mechs and mechbays. If they weren't making enough money, they would have changed the pricing by now.

Also everything I said applies to this thread, not specifically to your post.

Edited by Noth, 06 March 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Shumabot]

Noth, on 06 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

The only thing remotely pay to win is the consumables, which in all honestly won't make them that much money as they are so cheap. Their money makers will continue to be premium, mechs and mechbays. If they weren't making enough money, they would have changed the pricing by now.

Also everything I said applies to this thread, not specifically to your post.

They just introduced a new revenue stream and revamped the pricing structure on paints entirely last month. How you can say that they're talking in enough is beyond me. You don't know that and everything points to their publisher demanding that they make more and them capitulating.

[ProtoformX]

Is this the hurr durr thread? This guy is complaining about stuff not being in a game that's still being developed. ****, most everything he wants has already been announced.

Learn to read.
Learn to play.
Learn to patients.

You need 'em all bud.

[Noth]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

They just introduced a new revenue stream and revamped the pricing structure on paints entirely last month. How you can say that they're talking in enough is beyond me. You don't know that and everything points to their publisher demanding that they make more and them capitulating.

They revamped the pricing on the paints because no one was buying them and there were massive complaints about them. See they do change things if their pricing structure is not working. There are a lot of hero mechs being bought and relatively little in the way of complaints about the prices of them when compared to the complaints about the pricing of the paints. Again, the consumables are so cheap that it won't make much of a difference in their revenue. they come out to what, about 12 cents? Also as a business you always try and add new revenue streams even if your others are making money. It's how you grow.

Edited by Noth, 06 March 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Shumabot]

Noth, on 06 March 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

They revamped the pricing on the paints because no one was buying them and there were massive complaints about them. See they do change things if their pricing structure is not working. There are a lot of hero mechs being bought and relatively little in the way of complaints about the prices of them when compared to the complaints about the pricing of the paints. Again, the consumables are so cheap that it won't make much of a difference in their revenue. they come out to what, about 12 cents?

Threads about the pricing of hero mechs outnumbered the threads about the pricing of paints three to one up until the day they changed the paint system.

As for the price, yeah 12 cents.
For one time use.
In one game.
For something you are going to use every game.
In a game where a round is usually eight minutes.
Play two hours in a night thats fifteen games.
Play three nights a week thats forty five games.
$5.40 per week for someone buying every game but only playing 2 hours a day 3 times a week (fairly standard).
$21.60 a month just for your goldsinks with regular play habits and the need to pay to win (this does and will happen to a lot of people).

I spend a bit on paints and maybe a new mech now and then and I feel underpowered and abused by a game that rewards people with lots of excess spending cash. It's pay to win and it's a proven economic model, people will spend literally hundreds on goldsinks, and this game will get a reputation as pay to win while the population falls because of it.

It's a death sentence to a game at this stage of development that caters to a western audience. SEA and russian territories would keep this going (with much better currency to content rates then we get) but the NA audience will abandon this thing like it's got leprosy.

Edited by Shumabot, 06 March 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Noth]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Threads about the pricing of hero mechs outnumbered the threads about the pricing of paints three to one up until the day they changed the paint system.

As for the price, yeah 12 cents.
For one time use.
In one game.
For something you are going to use every game.
In a game where a round is usually eight minutes.
Play two hours in a night thats fifteen games.
Play three nights a week thats forty five games.
$5.40 per week for someone buying every game but only playing 2 hours a day 3 times a week (fairly standard).
$21.60 a month just for your goldsinks with regular play habits and the need to pay to win (this does and will happen to a lot of people).

I spend a bit on paints and maybe a new mech now and then and I feel underpowered and abused by a game that rewards people with lots of excess spending cash. It's pay to win and it's a proven economic model, people will spent literally hundreds on goldsinks.

No guarantee that people will buy them every game. It will likely end up like WoT where people only regularly use them for clan type matches and then rarely use them in any other match (and in that game clans could earn gold to buy them without spending a cent). That severely cuts into the profits of it. Also, mind posting proof of your first statement. I remember far more complaint threads with polls about Paints than hero mechs. Even if there were, plenty of people were still buying the hero mechs while almost no one was buying the paint. The actions and complaints need to match up.

Edited by Noth, 06 March 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Daggett]

Public Brutality, on 06 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Are they TRYING to discourage new players from joining MWO???? I payed 15 ******* dollars for the X-5, the price for MC is too damn high.... At this point, Hawken has better graphics, smoother game play, cheaper P2W (i know its bad but its a lesser evil) and a hell of a lot less bugs (ECM raven hit boxes anybody?)

They need to make this game more friendly to beginning players in the sense that it takes for ******* ever to earn C bills (even with a hero mech) and not pilot a POS trial mech...

I also cant wait to see how bad they screw up Jager, because after they ruin that for me, I think I might call it quits...

Just my rant, anybody else agree?

Welcome to the world of F2P.
The rules are simple:

- The grind is slow to encourage you to spend money on premium to accelerate progress.
- Things like Hero mechs are expensive because people buy them at such high prices. And you are the best proof to this because you already bought a hero mech despite the fact that you think it is too expensive

Nothing unfair here (you know, devs need food and shelter too) and far away from P2W as long as Hero mechs stay as balanced as they are currently and they rethink their plans for MC-Modules.

And in my opinion you can't compare MWO to Hawken. Those are totally different games, and each of those will attract different player-types.
MWO is way more like WoT while Hawken is much like CoD.

BTW: If you think the grind is too hard, you seem to never played WoT. The grind in this game is extreme, even with premium account.
In MWO you can buy your favorite mech after 1-2 evenings (much like in LoL), while in WoT you need several MONTHS to aquire a higher tier tank.

So progression is totally fine for me given what i've seen in similar games.

Edited by Daggett, 06 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Novakaine]

Chose your poison.
Beer or MWO.
That simple.

[Shumabot]

ProtoformX, on 06 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Is this the hurr durr thread? This guy is complaining about stuff not being in a game that's still being developed. ****, most everything he wants has already been announced.

Learn to read.
Learn to play.
Learn to patients.

You need 'em all bud.

They announced dx11 too. That's not being worked on and it's not coming. They announced they would never do pay to win. It's here.

You're probably be the one that should learn to read.

Noth, on 06 March 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

No guarantee that people will buy them every game. It will likely end up like WoT where people only regularly use them for clan type matches and then rarely use them in any other match (and in that game clans could earn gold to buy them without spending a cent). That severely cuts into the profits of it. Also, mind posting proof of your first statement. I remember far more complaint threads with polls about Paints than hero mechs. Even if there were, plenty of people were still buying the hero mechs while almost no one was buying the paint. The actions and complaints need to match up.

I can 100% guarentee you that there are already people who have planned around purchasing them for every single game they play for the rest of the time they are playing this game. People do it in world of tanks, people do it in every game that is pay to win. It's part of what makes pay to win work as a revenue stream.

As to how I can proof the statement, give me your time machine and I will. Until then don't make ridiculous requests.

[Noth]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

They announced dx11 too. That's not being worked on and it's not coming.

Because it is impossible to have different teams work on different things right?

If you really wanted this game to succeed you would act as if everything is falling apart when it is not.

[Shumabot]

Noth, on 06 March 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Because it is impossible to have different teams work on different things right?

If you really wanted this game to succeed you would act as if everything is falling apart when it is not.

With their listed staff? Yeah. If you really wanted this game to succeed you wouldn't constantly defend PGIs awful turnaround, terrible community engagement, seemingly non existent balance considerations, and clear pay to win systems.

But you don't.

Edited by Shumabot, 06 March 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Selah Ward]

I'm on both sides of this issue. Good games take time to build up, and this game is no exception. Problems with hit-boxes, ping lag, and such are to be expected. Prices for Mechs seem pretty fair to me as well. They do have a game to run and families to feed, after all. We can't expect the game to survive on our good intentions.

Third tier consumables are another matter. They are a firm step towards P2W. A small one, granted, but a step nonetheless. That's not at all ok. We have been promised that P2W wasn't even an option, and that is a promise that needs to be honored. The only way I, and I assume many others, will be comfortable spending money on this game to support it is if we feel that we can trust PGI/IGP. If they show that they can't be trusted, then I fear they will lose a lot of loyal customers. This will most certainly hurt them in the long run.

They aren't just building a game, they are building trust.

Edited by Selah Ward, 06 March 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[ragingmunkyz]

I'm actually going to give this a 7 out of 10 on the troll scale, the OP was rather good. Not only did you almost get me to bite, you got 4 pages worth of responses.

Where you lost points: -1 for the Hawken comparison, a game which puts PGI's little P2W money-grab to shame, and is the definition of a broken. -1 for failing to account for the cadet bonus which obviously allows a new player to buy most mechs after 25 matches. The final -1 was for this:

Public Brutality, on 06 March 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

also, why should i have to pay to paint my mech? ITS PAINT

That's where it really fell apart. Overall good effort, though!

Edited by ragingmunkyz, 06 March 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Ph30nix]

right now game is small enough and only in development stage so the smaller base of players who are willing to fork over the high prices is enough for them for now. Hopefully when it opens up more they do lower prices.

i dont like the prices of 99% of the F2P games to me it REALY highlights to ignorance and waste of most people. Sadly not much we can do about it because those that will spend are in enough numbers that they dont feel the need to lower prices even though they could potentialy make ALOT more if they did.

to those people who see any money they spend as "helping development" good for you i and all of us appreciate that you would do that and care about the game that much. But reality the money isnt going to just development its going into someones pockets (doubtful its PGI) at a BETA game stage they shouldnt be expecting to turn a profit any dime made SHOULD go to development and its not.

[Noth]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

With their listed staff? Yeah. If you really wanted this game to succeed you wouldn't constantly defend PGIs awful turnaround, terrible community engagement, seemingly non existent balance considerations, and clear pay to win systems.

But you don't.

THey have more done in this game than most games have after a year of coding. The amount they've gotten done is amazing. Also with their listed staff they can still have people working on it. You don't know exactly how many are on a team nor the responsibilities of the teams.

Oh and I care, i just form my issues into more constructive posts that aren't filled with doom or gloom. I can also look and see the good in the game and how far it has come.

Edited by Noth, 06 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[jakucha]

Shumabot, on 06 March 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

With their listed staff? Yeah. If you really wanted this game to succeed you wouldn't constantly defend PGIs awful turnaround, terrible community engagement, seemingly non existent balance considerations, and clear pay to win systems.

But you don't.

herp derp herp derp they can't focus on balance until netcode issues are fixed, I wonder what they just improved with the latest patch, HMM. It's almost as if you're exaggerating.

Edited by jakucha, 06 March 2013 - 04:10 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I guess I'm not sure what the OP really expects from the game.
... maybe I'm just too patient while waiting for the key elements of the game to come into the light of day (like Community Warfare)
... maybe I'm too trusting that PGI (and sometimes IGP) actually listens to us when they announce or implement a bad idea (like unchecked ECM, MC-only one-time use paints and camos, third-person POV, game-affecting consumables for MC)
... maybe I actually believe them when they say "it's beta", that the game is not finished, that they're constantly testing new things, but those things take time

With this patch, for the first time, I feel like I can recommend this game to my friends who have not been following the forums or watching vids and streams for the past few months, because they can actually hop in each trial mech in the training grounds and try it out without getting insta-killed the first time the step out of their base.

I started grinding dragons about 3 weeks ago, and just unlocked master on them last night (while also playing some other mechs, but mostly my dragons). If that's "slow progression", then how do you recommend PGI keep people playing for months and years? OP, check your stats ... if you're not making significantly more than 100K C-Bills per match, you might be doing something wrong.

High prices for MC ... maybe a little ... I don't think I'd subscribe for a video game, but I will keep shopping for a camo spec that looks right on my DRG-1N.

[unusedname]

Tennex, on 06 March 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

i've given up on the game. they are going to keep trying to slip P2W on us.

theres no balance director. The huge buff to artemis was not in anyway done in relation to the big picture. ECM still has not been fixed, sSRMs have not been looked at.

PGI is really showing their standard of low expectations. I had high hopes, but history tends to repeat itself, and MWO like all of PGI's other games will be a crap game.

Yeah, I've tried hypnotizing myself with the logic that "it's still a beta give it break!" just like other's have done successfully. But nothing comes through. No balance director should have been a red flag so shame on me.

And so, I'm forced to the truth that this game is a let down.

[Shumabot]

jakucha, on 06 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

herp derp herp derp they can't focus on balance until netcode issues are fixed, I wonder what they just improved with the latest patch, HMM. It's almost as if you're exaggerating.

Herp derp derp, they just introduced an un asked for version of artemis that greatly increased the damage potential of the two most powerful and abusive weapon systems in the game and legitimately broke LRMs. Last month they "fixed" SRMs causing them to do even more damage (already they are three times the next best non missile weapon for sustained dps).

Herp derp derp, THEY ARE ACTIVELY MAKING THE GAME BALANCE WORSE WITH EVERY PATCH.

You have no idea what you're talking about.