28 replies to this topic

[Stringburka]

I'd like the Jagermech to have a _low_ max engine rating, possibly the slowest of all heavies, but have a very good torso twist, possibly 360. That'd fit it's role as a mobile turret.

[blinkin]

Kell Commander, on 10 March 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Why I also abstained. Make it the ballistic equivalent of a catapult.

you mean like the K2.

it is already running the risk of driving the K2 and most of the cataphracts out of business because it is capable of mounting more and better weapons in every case except the ilya and even then there are only a couple builds where the ilya can out do the jager.

the only mech i have that uses ballistics ATM is a hunchback, but i don't want the forums to fill with "nerf the jager" threads. this will likely already happen because it will be better armed than almost any other ballistic mech out there, and you guys still want more?

lets give it jump jets and ECM too. how about letting it have a 400 engine. if we are designing pure cheese then let's not go half way.

THE ONLY MECH CAPABLE OF MOUNTING 4x UAC5 <-IS THIS NOT ENOUGH?

[Eddrick]

Not sure if it needs it. But, it would help.

[Capt Cole 117]

blinkin, on 10 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

THE ONLY MECH CAPABLE OF MOUNTING 4x UAC5 <-IS THIS NOT ENOUGH?

4 UACs weigh 36 tons, since you'll need at least 6 tons of ammo to keep those firing through a typical match, that would only leave ~4 tons for an engine if armor levels are similar to a cataphract. So you'd have a mech that go's ~45 kph with an XL engine, in other words, NOT A VIABLE BUILD.

I made a mock up with the CTF 4X. Gauss and gauss ammo are 36 tons to represent 4 UACs, with 6 tons of UAC ammo thats a max damage of 750 assuming 100% accuracy and that you actually survive long enough to use it all. The last five tons are unused because the Jegar is five tons lighter then the Cataphract.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bfeceb354a882b8

Actually you still need to find a way to fit two more heatsinks, so the 4 UAC jegar is little more then a sitting duck.

Edit: I had to remove more ammo to fit the required number of heat sinks, the 4 UAC jegar is a phantom menace
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ddc2c965625dee

Edited by Capt Cole 117, 10 March 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Monky]

4x UAC5 Jaeger is like 3x Gauss Ilya; a novelty and a joke.

2xAC20 Jaeger is the only build that can be pulled that isn't currently in the game which is also viable - and it still has rough parity with the K2, but a considerable amount of extra tonnage because it can fit an XL. Understanding weight limits is key when taking balance into account.

Edited by Monky, 10 March 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[blinkin]

Capt Cole 117, on 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

4 UACs weigh 36 tons, since you'll need at least 6 tons of ammo to keep those firing through a typical match, that would only leave ~4 tons for an engine if armor levels are similar to a cataphract. So you'd have a mech that go's ~45 kph with an XL engine, in other words, NOT A VIABLE BUILD.

I made a mock up with the CTF 4X. Gauss and gauss ammo are 36 tons to represent 4 UACs, with 6 tons of UAC ammo thats a max damage of 750 assuming 100% accuracy and that you actually survive long enough to use it all. The last five tons are unused because the Jegar is five tons lighter then the Cataphract.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bfeceb354a882b8

Actually you still need to find a way to fit two more heatsinks, so the 4 UAC jegar is little more then a sitting duck.

Edit: I had to remove more ammo to fit the required number of heat sinks, the 4 UAC jegar is a phantom menace
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ddc2c965625dee

no it won't be a brawler like the cataphracts, but it will have high slung, arm mounted ballistic slots that can mount any ballistic weapon. i hadn't even considered the biggest advantage it has over the catapult K2, the XL engine. so it can mount 2x AC20 AND still be fast.

with the raised up ballistic arms it will also be one of the best sniper mechs.

also i am going to correct a little bit of your math.

max damage would be 900 (5x30 = 150 150x6 = 900) which i find to be respectable. enough for about 4 and a half dead enemies if you assume 200 damage per kill. you would get at least 2 extra slots for the arm actuators, but with what you have shown me space will be at a premium so double heat sinks would be a bad idea

also the jager is going to have much less armor base and a little less max (i would have likely reduced the armor anyways to make full use of ballistic slots)

jager

• 192 base
  
• 422 max

cataphract

• 434 base
  
• 434 max

you can do the 384 armor that you demonstrate but i wouldn't because the jager will not need to expose itself nearly as much compared to any of the cataphracts. you have to pay attention to the shape of the mech just as much as you do the stats. if you play it right you should spend most of your time hull down with respect to your enemy. if you stick to it's base armor you free up about 6 tons (as compared to your test build of 384).



it is designed to be a flak/sniper support mech. treating it like a brawler would be foolish, but within it's role it will out shine any other mech on the field by leaps and bounds.

Edited by blinkin, 11 March 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Capt Cole 117]

blinkin, on 11 March 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

no it won't be a brawler like the cataphracts, but it will have high slung, arm mounted ballistic slots that can mount any ballistic weapon. i hadn't even considered the biggest advantage it has over the catapult K2, the XL engine. so it can mount 2x AC20 AND still be fast.

max damage would be 900 (5x30 = 150 150x6 = 900) which i find to be respectable. enough for about 4 and a half dead enemies if you assume 200 damage per kill. you would get at least 2 extra slots for the arm actuators,

UAC ammo is 25 per ton, AC 5 ammo is 30 per ton.

If the AC20 XL combo proves too annoying we can just lower the max engine rating to limit it to boomcat speeds. The sky is not falling, we can give evey mech a niche without breaking the game by limiting engine rating, torso/arm movement, modules and ECM on the most effective mechs.

[Strum Wealh]

Capt Cole 117, on 10 March 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

4 UACs weigh 36 tons, since you'll need at least 6 tons of ammo to keep those firing through a typical match, that would only leave ~4 tons for an engine if armor levels are similar to a cataphract. So you'd have a mech that go's ~45 kph with an XL engine, in other words, NOT A VIABLE BUILD.

I made a mock up with the CTF 4X. Gauss and gauss ammo are 36 tons to represent 4 UACs, with 6 tons of UAC ammo thats a max damage of 750 assuming 100% accuracy and that you actually survive long enough to use it all. The last five tons are unused because the Jegar is five tons lighter then the Cataphract.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bfeceb354a882b8

Actually you still need to find a way to fit two more heatsinks, so the 4 UAC jegar is little more then a sitting duck.

Edit: I had to remove more ammo to fit the required number of heat sinks, the 4 UAC jegar is a phantom menace
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ddc2c965625dee

I came up with this in RemLab and posted it in the "JagerMech Discussion" thread on Feb. 15:

• Chassis: Endo Steel
  
• Powerplant: 260 XL (top speed: 64.8 kph)
  
• Heat Sinks: x10 DHS (all in engine)
  
• Armor: 7.5 tons of Standard Armor
  
• Armament: x4 UAC/5s (x2 RA, x2 LA) with 5 tons of ammo (x2 LL, x2 RL, x1 Head)

It carries more armor than the standard JagerMech variants (7.5 tons of Standard vs 6.0 tons of Standard for the stock JM6-S and 6.5 tons of FF for the JM6-DD), retains the original's speed, and still carries a substantial amount of ammo.
All tonnage was used, with only 6 criticals to spare.

If one wished, one could drop down to 6.5 tons of Standard Armor and mount a sixth ton of ammo.

Or one could drop the engine to a 195 XL (for a top speed of 54 kph) and switch to SHS (to not consume too many criticals), then carry three more tons of ammo (for a total of 8 tons) and add a ton of armor (for a total of 8.5 tons).

• Chassis: Endo Steel
  
• Powerplant: 195 XL (top speed: 54.0 kph)
  
• Heat Sinks: x10 SHS (7 in engine, 1 in each torso section)
  
• Armor: 8.5 tons of Standard Armor
  
• Armament: x4 UAC/5s (x2 RA, x2 LA) with 8 tons of ammo (x2 LL, x2 RL, x1 Head, x1 in each torso section)

This would use all tonnage and all criticals.
It will be slow and kinda hot, but it is not a frontline brawler and trying to use it as such would be idiocy that the opposing team can and should punish accordingly; such a 'Mech's role is sniping and providing suppressive fire from long range.

[Capt Cole 117]

Strum Wealh, on 11 March 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

I came up with this in RemLab and posted it in the "JagerMech Discussion" thread on Feb. 15:

• Chassis: Endo Steel
  
• Powerplant: 260 XL (top speed: 64.8 kph)
  
• Heat Sinks: x10 DHS (all in engine)
  
• Armor: 7.5 tons of Standard Armor
  
• Armament: x4 UAC/5s (x2 RA, x2 LA) with 5 tons of ammo (x2 LL, x2 RL, x1 Head

With only 7.5 tons of armor and an XL your going to get counter sniped very easly, hell I'd even challenge that to a dual with my raven 3L.