229 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

Just increase their dps to the dps of SPL. They're useless so this way MGs and SPLs get to be useless together. 1 big happy family of useless weapons.

[Terror Teddy]

DeadlyNerd, on 31 March 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Just increase their dps to the dps of SPL. They're useless so this way MGs and SPLs get to be useless together. 1 big happy family of useless weapons.

But useful on mechs that have no other choice or can field a decent amount of them to make a difference.

[DeadlyNerd]

Terror Teddy, on 01 April 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

But useful on mechs that have no other choice or can field a decent amount of them to make a difference.

Look, I kidd. I voted Yes anyway, cause the MG obviously needs to be on par with SPL.

[UberFubarius]

DeadlyNerd, on 01 April 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Look, I kidd. I voted Yes anyway, cause the MG obviously needs to be on par with SPL.

MG might need to be on par with SPL, but having 1 DPS might be a tiny bit too much I think for several reasons.
1. SPL generate heat, MG doesn't.
2. MG has a marginally higher range than SPL (200m MG versus 180m SL).
So, MG > than SPL in terms of heat and range. Identical in terms of tonnage and crit-slot *.
* Yes, MG requires at least 1 ton of ammo, although let's look at SPL's heat-sink requirement and MG's ammo requirement.
For max continuous DPS on SPL, you need 7 tons of SHS (0.7 heat dissipation) to counter SPL's 0.67 HPS. 7 tons of ammo for MG gives it 14000 rounds, which amounts to... 23 minutes of non-stop firing. So ammo restriction wise, SPL and MG should be fairly similar. More SHS gives greater sustained DPS for SPL, and more MG ammos do the same.

I would suggest something like double or triple MG ammo / ton and double damage (so 0.8 DPS).

[ICEFANG13]

MGs spread damage all over above 10-20m, and require constant fire to achieve its damage. 1 is needed at least. A Small Pulse Laser has 1.09 DPS and its laughed at for being too hot and having too little range (in fact its worse than the Medium Laser in every way except at the .5 second mark, where the Medium has done 2.5 damage and the Small Pulse 3, at the next interval, the Medium then does more damage, and the Small Pulse doesn't recycle fast enough to keep up.)

[Bobzilla]

The SPL shouldn't be in the game, there is no reason to not take the ML over it. Stop considering that the MG spreads damage, so does every laser.

[ICEFANG13]

I think we should remove every weapon that is considered less than stellar. LRMs+SRMs+Med Pulse+Small Pulse+Machine Gun+Flamer. Lets start there.

Lasers do not spread damage, they often do, but they do not by design.

[Bobzilla]

ICEFANG13, on 04 April 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

I think we should remove every weapon that is considered less than stellar. LRMs+SRMs+Med Pulse+Small Pulse+Machine Gun+Flamer. Lets start there.

Lasers do not spread damage, they often do, but they do not by design.

They are designed with a duration. I don't think they are designed to fire from stationary targets, into stationary target. Aim matters. If you can't aim at all your dps will suffer, if you can aim half decent your dps is the same. If you can aim really well your dps is affective. Be it MG or ML.

[ICEFANG13]

So we should make the MG into an effective weapon with a duration correct?

[Team Leader]

Bobzilla, on 04 April 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

The SPL shouldn't be in the game, there is no reason to not take the ML over it. Stop considering that the MG spreads damage, so does every laser.

Lasers spread due to bad aim. MGs spread because of the game forcing it to spread. It's not the same. It's the only weapon without perfect accuracy (excluding missiles)

[Gremlich Johns]

My solution, get rid of MGs since there are no infantry to use them against.

[Rhekin]

real machin gun stat : (Browning Machine Gun, Cal. .50, M2, HB)
Weight 38 kg (83.78 lb)
58 kg (127.87 lb) with tripod and T&E Minimum range 1,800 m (2,000 yd)^[3] Maximum range 6,800 m (7,400 yd)
in game is very big nerf weapon and ammo = 1.5 T for 2000 cartridge and 1 weapon very heavy and not powerful enough
need increase damage and range

[Terror Teddy]

Gremlich Johns, on 06 April 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

My solution, get rid of MGs since there are no infantry to use them against.

Please, at least look at the numbers and the facts about what we are discussing before spouting machineguns vs infantry drivel.

20mm machineguns weigting 500 kilos that gains BONUS damage at about +600% against infantry PLATOONS are not a tiny hand held machinegun - it is a non-man-portable vehicle mounted weapon.

[Gremlich Johns]

Terror Teddy, on 06 April 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Please, at least look at the numbers and the facts about what we are discussing before spouting machineguns vs infantry drivel.

20mm machineguns weigting 500 kilos that gains BONUS damage at about +600% against infantry PLATOONS are not a tiny hand held machinegun - it is a non-man-portable vehicle mounted weapon.

Then what you are suggesting is to totally deviate from the Canon use of MGs (which are actually 25mm) and give everybody a no heat penalty to use them because you want it. Frankly, make the things not single MGs, but an array of 4 that fit in one ballistic slot. That will give you the damage you are seeking plus some heat.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 06 April 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

We should remove Machine Guns because they aren't good against mechs. Instead we will replace it with auto-mech small ballistic "ASB", which is designed to damage mechs. It weighs .5 tons and has 2000 shots of ammo per ton. Generates no heat and has range of 90-200, and high spread. Damage is .04 and DPS is .4.

Alright now that we are past that problem, what are some suggestions about this new ASB weapon?

[General Taskeen]

Gremlich Johns, on 06 April 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

My solution, get rid of MGs since there are no infantry to use them against.

PGI adds Mechs into the game based exactly on record sheets.

And again, an MG did 2 damage to a Mech in BT. It did 2 or 12 Bonus damage vs. infantry.

I'm not even sure why people need to be reminded of this over and over.

[Team Leader]

General Taskeen, on 06 April 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

PGI adds Mechs into the game based exactly on record sheets.

And again, an MG did 2 damage to a Mech in BT. It did 2 or 12 Bonus damage vs. infantry.

I'm not even sure why people need to be reminded of this over and over.

Gremlich just trolls every thread about machine guns. You can ignore him.

[Gremlich Johns]

Team Leader, on 06 April 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Gremlich just trolls every thread about machine guns. You can ignore him.

Yes, mostly because I have shot a lot of weapons, from BB guns up to 152mm Gun-launchers on M60A2 (fired Shillelagh missiles) and was on the last test phase of the XM-1 in 1981. Please consider.....

In NBT-Mercs (an MW4 planetary league), in one match, my Clan (CBS, go figure) dropped 8 Lokis armed only with Clan Heavy Machinegun arrays. I think we mounted at least 5 each with gobs of ammo. I think in MW4, all of the MGs were "bundles" of MGs, not single weapons.

We won with no losses and the other team was not pleased. We used the terrain such that we could maneuver close to them in order to minimize their long range weapons.

If you want MGs to be those dakka dakka weapons, they need to be 4-gun arrays of the current MGs and should take up two slots (with their own colling system). Beefing up single weapons to what you want should make you just opt for an AC2 instead. Keep in mind that the current AMS, analogous to the Phalanx anti-missile system on US ships (look at it!!!!), is a 20mm gatling-gun. A single 25mm MG on a mech does NOT deliver that kind of damage - a 4-gun array of 25mm would.

4-gun arrays are the answer - do the math for damage on that.

[cerealspiller]

The DPS for a MG should NOT be increased

Look at it this way: DPS per Ton

AC/2: 0.67 DPS per ton
AC/5: 0.37 DPS per ton
AC/10: 0.34 DPS per ton
AC/20: 0.36 DPS per ton
Gauss Rifle: 0.25 DPS per ton

Small Laser: 2 DPS per ton
Medium Laser: 1.25 DPS per ton
Large Laser: 0.42 DPS per ton
PPC: 0.48 DPS per ton

If the Machine Gun dealt 1 DPS: 2 DPS per ton
If the Machine Gun dealt 2 DPS: 4 DPS per ton
Currently, the Machine Gun deals 0.4 DPS: 0.8 DPS per ton

No. The Machine Gun fires 10 rounds per second and does very, very little damage. Use two of them on an unarmored location and you can knock out every item located there in just a few seconds. They are working perfectly.

From personal experience, mounting 4 Machine Guns on my Jagermech-DD has proven very useful. In one game, a Splat-Cat was tearing up our frontlines. By the time it got to me, both of it's arm locations were striped of armor. I took one full volley before I knocked out all the the SRMs from one arm. He gave me a half volley before I knocked out his other arm. And I only used my Machine Guns. Once the Splat-Cat was weaponless, I moved on to more dangerous targets.

[ICEFANG13]

Don't forget range. Did you know you could remove all four, and put a Medium Pulse on it, and it could have more range and not need ammo for it?

DPS to ton doesn't really matter, except for light mechs, who really need a MG buff to be more viable (Spider-5K+Cicada-3C+Raven-4X).