84 replies to this topic

[jay35]

Noobzorz, on 08 March 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

So what you're suggesting now is:

- Always have ECM

- Always have missiles

- Always have PPC


AKA

Only ever no matter what play the raven 3L.

Sounds like balance to me, friend!

Thanks to the random map assignment, that's all you can do. You guys are slowly learning how random map assignment kills build diversity and ruins balance no matter how complex a matchmaking system is developed to attempt to fix what is really the fault of random map assignment.

[MadPanda]

Noobzorz, on 08 March 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

So what you're suggesting now is:

- Always have ECM

- Always have missiles

- Always have PPC


AKA

Only ever no matter what play the raven 3L.

Sounds like balance to me, friend!

How did you get to that conclusions? Oh Noobzor.... Always have either ecm or ppc. Obviously you got 7 teammates so sometimes you can take a risk and roll without either one and hope some of your teammates have them instead, but if you do that then don't complain if all of your team has none of them.

[Livewyr]

jay35, on 08 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Thanks to the random map assignment, that's all you can do. You guys are slowly learning how random map assignment kills build diversity and ruins balance no matter how complex a matchmaking system is developed to attempt to fix what is really the fault of random map assignment.

Food for thought:
"What would you bring to Alpine if you knew you were going to be on it?" (probably Gauss/ERPPCs, ECM, and Missiles.)
Pretend your not the only one who thinks that.

MadPanda, on 08 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

How did you get to that conclusions? Oh Noobzor.... Always have either ecm or ppc. Obviously you got 7 teammates so sometimes you can take a risk and roll without either one and hope some of your teammates have them instead, but if you do that then don't complain if all of your team has none of them.

Meta game equalization?

I'd rather they just fixed the equipment so we didn't have to worry about the equipment lottery determining our chances of winning.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

MadPanda, on 08 March 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

How did you get to that conclusions? Oh Noobzor.... Always have either ecm or ppc. Obviously you got 7 teammates so sometimes you can take a risk and roll without either one and hope some of your teammates have them instead, but if you do that then don't complain if all of your team has none of them.

So what you are saying is that ECM and PPC's are required?

Because that's what you just said.

And if that is the case, guess what? ECM is broke.

[Damocles69]

cue dead horse meme

[Teralitha]

Livewyr, on 08 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Indeed.. if your weapon or equipment becomes part of the meta game.. something is wrong.

Funny guy, but you misunderstood my meaning. All weapons, all mechs, all tech should be viable in the meta. not just a few.... or too few...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Damocles69, on 08 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

cue dead horse meme

It wouldn't be a dead horse if PGI would acknowledge it.

Kind of like they did with consumables, it's obvious they can make mistakes and admit it.

But it shouldn't take what happened earlier this week to make that stuff happen.

[Livewyr]

Damocles69, on 08 March 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

cue dead horse meme

It's a dead horse when it's resolved.
This has neither been resolved.. or announced to be resolved.
And clearly their are people who for some (unknown logic) reason think this is perfectly okay/balanced.

Teralitha, on 08 March 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Funny guy, but you misunderstood my meaning. All weapons, all mechs, all tech should be viable in the meta. not just a few.... or too few...

I understood what you were saying, but I was taking it one step further.

If everything is viable in Meta (which technically it is) but some things are required in comparison, those requirements become the meta game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 08 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

We brought swords and no Aegis Missile Shield.. (did I also mention they were 3Ls and DDCs other than their missile boats?)



Indeed.. if your weapon or equipment becomes part of the meta game.. something is wrong.

I assumed as much when you made the OP Live.

I have to disagree with the meta game statement though. If you are going ingot combat (ie dropping into a match) You have to be as ready as you can for any situation. If you don't you are handicapping yourself. My primary ride is the example, I have Gauss and ER PPC for max reach & hitting power, 3x SRM6 for close quarters, ECM for extra cover/Counter, and AMS. My Ilya has Gauss, Mediums and AMS, My FAtlas has LRMs, Larges, AMS. The only time I am at a real disadvantage is when I am facing more than one opponent!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 March 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Lil Cthulhu]

So wait, you want PGI to fix something? Bahahahahahahahahahahalololawlawlawlawl
*wipes tear from eye*
Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

[Silentium]

I dunno noobzor, I have not fully formed an opinion on ecm itself. Instinctually, I feel like not having it is a significant disadvantage. It can be countered, so I won't throw the op flag, but it needs work. again, on a coordinated team? Probably not much of a problem. In a solo drop? It's kind of broken.

PGI has gone to some trouble to emphasize that this is a team game, so I am not sure how much more will be tweaked with ecm. At this point, I have already cried uncle and accepted the situation. I can still have a good time in spite of it, bit sometimes....yeah, it gets under my skin a little.

[Training Instructor]

Ideally, the matchmaking system should clump up teams on certain maps. IE, brawler builds should all be put on the same team and then dumped on to alpine peaks, and LRM boats should be grouped up with DDCS and RAven 3Ls so they kill the other team laughably fast.

This ensures that 8 people walk away happy, and 8 people walk away hating the game. It's a brilliant strategy that we're just not enlightened enough to comprehend fully. I'm still trying to get my head around it but, alas, I fear I don't have the education or processing power to get more than a hint at the full scope of obvious genius.

[Livewyr]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 March 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

I assumed as much when you made the OP Live.

I have to disagree with the meta game statement though. If you are going ingot combat (ie dropping into a match) You have to be as ready as you can for any situation. If you don't you are handicapping yourself. My primary ride is the example, I have Gauss and ER PPC for max reach & hitting power, 3x SRM6 for close quarters,

[Requires ECM not to be missiled to all hell.]

ECM for extra cover/Counter, and AMS. My Ilya has Gauss, Mediums and AMS,

[Hope you don't end up against missiles with no ECM.]

My FAtlas has LRMs, Larges, AMS. The only time I am at a real disadvantage is when I am facing more than one opponent!

[Which will frequently happen in a team game, especially if you're in a slow mech.]

Match I just had in the same mech in the same map,
ECM wasn't out of control (we had 2 on assault mechs, they had one on a Raven)
Missiles weren't imbalanced, each side had one missile boat.


Exact same mech/build. Exact same map. Difference? The "Meta game" was relatively balanced.

[MaddMaxx]

Livewyr, on 08 March 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

And my build has to do with this because?

Because if you wish your Team to always have some ECM, perhaps you should equip some.

[Livewyr]

MaddMaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Because if you wish your Team to always have some ECM, perhaps you should equip some.

Sad, ain't it.

[MaddMaxx]

Noobzorz, on 08 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Ok. I got confused there.

Anyways, "always play a mech with ECM and nothing else ever," is not a valid balance statement.

Or the alternative. Don't bring some, then get smoked and run to the Forums and whine about the loss... tough choice... hmmmm

Noobzorz, on 08 March 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

So what you're suggesting now is:

- Always have ECM

- Always have missiles

- Always have PPC


AKA

Only ever no matter what play the raven 3L.

Sounds like balance to me, friend!

Or play better.

[Livewyr]

MaddMaxx, on 08 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Or the alternative. Don't bring some, then get smoked and run to the Forums and whine about the loss... tough choice... hmmmm



Or play better.

Could you clarify? Because I'm actually starting to think you might be serious...

[Viper69]

Cant figure out why ECM is chassis exclusive. Also ECM should be toned down to reflect its actual use not combined with 2 other techs to create one large super tech. The MM should also weigh components on your mech and give a value to each one, combined with the value placed on the mech chassis then factor your Elo in to create a more balanced drop. Lastly balance those numbers between the two teams.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Livewyr, on 08 March 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Could you clarify? Because I'm actually starting to think you might be serious...

Sadly I think he is.

If ECM is required, it's broken.

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 08 March 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Match I just had in the same mech in the same map,
ECM wasn't out of control (we had 2 on assault mechs, they had one on a Raven)
Missiles weren't imbalanced, each side had one missile boat.


Exact same mech/build. Exact same map. Difference? The "Meta game" was relatively balanced.

So you win 8-1 and that is cool? But when the stomp is the other way around and it is a Meta game issue? Your 2 D-DCs didn't have ECM? your 4 Assaults was fair v their 2? I don't know Live, you look like you had an advantage v this OpFor!