36 replies to this topic

[CloaknDagger]

Better idea than removing mechlab:

MAKE THE GAME BALANCED IN THE FIRST PLACE! COPY TT STATS!

[Loc Nar]

Now that I've picked myself back up off the floor where I was rolling around experiencing uninterrupted laughter and may have even briefly separated my buttocks for a moment, here is a suggestion. Be the hero that starts the stock mech league. Of course you will then need to make the 1 design class leagues right after that once the stock thing devolves into the 3 viable stock variants, but we can save the qq until we cross that bridge about 3 days after it's all organized. Now get out there and make it happen!

[0X2A]

6 ERPPC stalker where are your minimum range gods now?

[CloaknDagger]

0X2A, on 09 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

6 ERPPC stalker where are your minimum range gods now?

They melted.

[blinkin]

0X2A, on 09 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

6 ERPPC stalker where are your minimum range gods now?

that is 66 heat per shot.

besides the stalker manuevers like a beached whale so even if the ERPPC were viable i would still say get in close. they are slow and can't turn their heads.

[trycksh0t]

0X2A, on 09 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

6 ERPPC stalker where are your minimum range gods now?

Behind his gigantic buttocks, with me, chewing his rear armor into slag because it can't turn around to put those PPCs on target.

[Xandralkus]

CloaknDagger, on 09 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Better idea than removing mechlab:

MAKE THE GAME BALANCED IN THE FIRST PLACE! COPY TT STATS!

You don't bring a walrus to a dog show, and you don't bring tabletop mechanics to a shooter. Stop pretending that TT mechanics will correlate to a shooter/simulator. Consider yourself fortunate that vaguely similar weaponry and battlemechs transition over from TT to MWO. (Even this is questionable, given how badly most stock variants SUCK, and how poorly some weapons perform alongside others)

Also, medium laser boats and clan tech have a bone to pick with you; your argument is even more invalid in practice than in theory.

I don't mean to sound exceptionally bitter, but go ahead and read my signature over. If you still hold your viewpoint, then I encourage you to back it up with facts and intricate analysis. Show me equations and math that actually back up your statement, and I will gladly review them.

Edited by Xandralkus, 09 March 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[zztophat]

TT mechanics would work just fine... if we were rolling dice to hit.

[CryptRunner]

I think there should be a mech lab where limited changes can be made, and, to work around the decreased ability to modify our mechs, we should have more variants to choose from.

Imo, the matches would be a lot more entertaining, and last longer, if we were limited to original payloads, or even slightly modified payloads. I also think there would be a lot more strategy and teamwork in these matches as a result.

In canon Battletech/Mechwarrior these machines were not modified as such, and only those in high-end merc units, nobles, or mechs that belonged to Solaris Champions were afforded such modifications... And even then, they didn't put 4 ER-PPC's on their Stalker, or 6 SRM 6's on a Catapult, or 9 Medium Lasers on a Hunchback, etc etc..

Don't get me wrong, I love Mechwarrior and Battletech, but these mech builds we are able to make are just ridiculous, and, in my opinion, they break the game. Sooner or later, I think this game will lose it's appeal unless Piranha finds a way to make these matches more substantial.

[zztophat]

Xaevin, on 09 March 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

I think there should be a mech lab where limited changes can be made, and, to work around the decreased ability to modify our mechs, we should have more variants to choose from.

Imo, the matches would be a lot more entertaining, and last longer, if we were limited to original payloads, or even slightly modified payloads. I also think there would be a lot more strategy and teamwork in these matches as a result.

In canon Battletech/Mechwarrior these machines were not modified as such, and only those in high-end merc units, nobles, or mechs that belonged to Solaris Champions were afforded such modifications... And even then, they didn't put 4 ER-PPC's on their Stalker, or 6 SRM 6's on a Catapult, or 9 Medium Lasers on a Hunchback, etc etc..

Don't get me wrong, I love Mechwarrior and Battletech, but these mech builds we are able to make are just ridiculous, and, in my opinion, they break the game. Sooner or later, I think this game will lose it's appeal unless Piranha finds a way to make these matches more substantial.

This game would have no appeal to me if I couldn't design my own mechs.

And I have never built a splatcat or a 6 PPC stalker.

[Xandralkus]

zztophat, on 09 March 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

TT mechanics would work just fine... if we were rolling dice to hit.

Exactly what he said.

Removing the dice from TT fundamentally and radically changes the game, and likewise, fundamental and radical changes to the game must be made to rebalance it.

This is not a difficult idea to grasp, is it?

Now if only there were a way to echo these words, throughout the entire community. Or at least, the ones that pay attention to the state of game balance...

[Nebelfeuer]

OP is right. At least offer a basic models league - preferably within an pre-clan timeframe. Minmaxing may be fun for some, or even a lot, people but it´s outright venom for the gameplay itself. Alphastrike and substained dmg are way higher then stockmechdesign would allow - unfortunately armor is not. Same is true for Movementspeed that can be stacked to a degree that allows a lights to handle 2 assaults at once while still bringing more ofensive power then a light was ever expected too.

Most Original mechdesigns where created to cover multiple roles a once(including anti aircraft/infantry/etc.making them weaker in general) which makes them extremely more fun to play then these max-gain/min-efford Mechbusters the min-maxers come up with.

I will not vote for getting rid of the mechlab, but i seriously whish for a playfield for original Battletech fans besides this mech-tune-a-zilla-heaven.

[kiltymonroe]

Most original 'mech designs were created to suck. Literally. They were nearly all deliberately designed to have some sort of exploitable weakness, because BT was a tactical war game, and using your assets in ways that minimize their weaknesses and maximizing their strengths while denying your opponent the same was the challenge that made BT fun. You could just as easily use the construction rules to make your own overpowered boat 'mechs, but nobody really did that much in BT because it wasn't the point. When everyone's 'mechs are optimized, there's little skill left in the game and BT just becomes a dice-rolling contest.

None of that carries over to MechWarrior as a FPS simulator. Crippling weaknesses make for interesting tactical decisions, but having to actually pilot a machine that ultimately dies because it's ludicrously undersinked, has paper for armor, or some genius decided the ammo should be mounted in the CT is only frustrating. Meanwhile, the actual combat element is no longer automatic, introducing huge new skill elements that completely reshape the focus of the gameplay. Making everyone use designs that were gimped because they were designed for a different game with different goals is stupid.

In short, they're two completely different games, and you won't balance one by trying to turn it into the other. If you want to play TT, go download Megamek or something.

[Nebelfeuer]

kiltymonroe, on 10 March 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

having to actually pilot a machine that ultimately dies because it's ludicrously undersinked, has paper for armor, or some genius decided the ammo should be mounted in the CT is only frustrating.

Oh. More frustrating then being unable to hit a mech that is moving faster then it i is supposed to? Or being oneshot by a 6ppc alphasstrike because armorlimitations were never designet to cope with this amount of dmg?
Why one would want place a game a certain universe and then ignore all things that are essential to it is beyond me.
A whoever-rolls-6-first-wins concept is as boring in an fps as in a tactical TT.

But again, there is absolutely no reason to have not the best of both worlds with minimal efford. All we´d need is a second league besides the modders one. It´s not taking something away it is adding something worthwhile.

[Deathlike]

At this point, there should simply be a thread that covers why dice != keyboard+mouse or joystick.

[MuadXDib]

This would axe so many players and I don't even think it would solve the problem as intended. You would end up with terrible stock build vs. terrible stock build and only the least terrible stock builds would get used. It would be like game minus fun.

[Xandralkus]

Stock builds are terrible because of weapon imbalance. What we need to do is make 1 ton of weapons = 1 ton of weapons.

Then stock builds are no longer terrible - and boats are no longer overpowered!