149 replies to this topic

[Darkfire66]

I understand that getting capped isn't a fun way to lose.

That being said, I find a lot of people on here, and in game, complaining about it after moving to a great defensive position with all of their mechs and camping there. In Shogun 2, matches could literally take 30 minutes of people hiding in the woods and refusing to maneuver to avoid giving up their superior position.

Tactically, that is sound, and realistic.

From a gameplay perspective, that is wicked boring.

Just saying: If you are playing assault, either defend your base, or take the fight to them.

Don't go to upper city in river, then complain about your defenseless base being taken.

Use scouts so you don't get cave rushed...and start capping.

Nothing will get a dug in team into a fight faster than 4 mechs standing on their base.

[von Pilsner]

Because base camping is much more fun than getting capped...

[Darkfire66]

It is if you are on their base

[Tickdoff Tank]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Nothing will get a dug in team into a fight faster than 4 mechs standing on their base.

That is assuming that anyone on the team bothers to RTB. And that is a pretty big assumption.

[Darkfire66]

Tickdoff Tank, on 11 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

That is assuming that anyone on the team bothers to RTB. And that is a pretty big assumption.

If they don't, they deserve to lose.

[MischiefSC]

Base camping is your alternative to cap-rushing on Assault. You have two tactical options. One is cap rush, one is base camp.

Since a rush, when done well, is fast enough as to make scouting useless only teamspeak premades should do so and if they're any good as premades they should be rushing on Assault anyway.

I pug and occasionally drop premade. If my pug team stays together I've never lost a rush on Assault. The only times a rush has failed me on Assault is when my fellow puggies either split up or halt mid-rush and backup. If they have the brass to push through we always win. Always. If the other team tried a cap-rush than we destroy 2 or 3 of them on the way to out-cap the 2 or 3 flankers sitting on our base and put 6 or 7 on theirs and out-cap them.

Hence Assault is the preschool version. The only reason Assault has a challenge is that you don't always drop with people competent enough to stick together, focus fire and stay on target. It's hard, don't get me wrong, but Assault is not a tactical game mode. Conquest is.

So what we need to do is make the combat rewards in Conquest comparable to Assault. Then give people a little XP/cbill bonus for capturing points (which they don't have currently).

[Darkfire66]

MischiefSC, on 11 March 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Base camping is your alternative to cap-rushing on Assault. You have two tactical options. One is cap rush, one is base camp.

Since a rush, when done well, is fast enough as to make scouting useless only teamspeak premades should do so and if they're any good as premades they should be rushing on Assault anyway.

I pug and occasionally drop premade. If my pug team stays together I've never lost a rush on Assault. The only times a rush has failed me on Assault is when my fellow puggies either split up or halt mid-rush and backup. If they have the brass to push through we always win. Always. If the other team tried a cap-rush than we destroy 2 or 3 of them on the way to out-cap the 2 or 3 flankers sitting on our base and put 6 or 7 on theirs and out-cap them.

Hence Assault is the preschool version. The only reason Assault has a challenge is that you don't always drop with people competent enough to stick together, focus fire and stay on target. It's hard, don't get me wrong, but Assault is not a tactical game mode. Conquest is.

So what we need to do is make the combat rewards in Conquest comparable to Assault. Then give people a little XP/cbill bonus for capturing points (which they don't have currently).

I agree that capping deserves a little xp and cbill bonus, but assault is just a different experience. If you aren't in a light, I would say assault is actually more fun, since you don't spend the entire match not seeing anyone and getting outcapped. (See:Alpine)

Assault is still very much a tactical game, based on positioning, lanes of fire, use of cover, team movement, etc.

[Homeless Bill]

Just give us team deathmatch FFS.

[Chavette]

Homeless Bill, on 11 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Just give us team deathmatch FFS.

Deathmatches:

Because Base Capture Game Mode is Way Too Complicated For The Average Gamer in 2013

[MischiefSC]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

I agree that capping deserves a little xp and cbill bonus, but assault is just a different experience. If you aren't in a light, I would say assault is actually more fun, since you don't spend the entire match not seeing anyone and getting outcapped. (See:Alpine)

Assault is still very much a tactical game, based on positioning, lanes of fire, use of cover, team movement, etc.

Assault isn't tactical, you rush or hold. It's not even rock/paper/scissors, it's rock/rock.

Alpine is another matter all together but otherwise Assault is just fast and dirty cap rushing.

[Darkfire66]

MischiefSC, on 11 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Assault isn't tactical, you rush or hold. It's not even rock/paper/scissors, it's rock/rock.

Alpine is another matter all together but otherwise Assault is just fast and dirty cap rushing.

Tactics

• An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
  
• The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, esp. during contact with an enemy.
  
  
  
  Just saying.

Edited by Darkfire66, 11 March 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[SouthernRex]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tactics

• An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
  
• The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, esp. during contact with an enemy.
  
  
  
  
  Just saying.

No.

[Naja]

MischiefSC, on 11 March 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Assault isn't tactical, you rush or hold. It's not even rock/paper/scissors, it's rock/rock.

Alpine is another matter all together but otherwise Assault is just fast and dirty cap rushing.

Actually, assault has the capability to let teams incorporate a myriad of tactics, it's just that a large majority of the player base is uncoordinated (granted that's just pugs for you), or isn't capable of devising an efficient strategy because they're tactical creativity has been dumbed down by modern online gaming (I'm looking at you deathmatch oriented games like CoD)

[SpiralRazor]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I understand that getting capped isn't a fun way to lose.

That being said, I find a lot of people on here, and in game, complaining about it after moving to a great defensive position with all of their mechs and camping there. In Shogun 2, matches could literally take 30 minutes of people hiding in the woods and refusing to maneuver to avoid giving up their superior position.

Tactically, that is sound, and realistic.

From a gameplay perspective, that is wicked boring.

Just saying: If you are playing assault, either defend your base, or take the fight to them.

Don't go to upper city in river, then complain about your defenseless base being taken.

Use scouts so you don't get cave rushed...and start capping.

Nothing will get a dug in team into a fight faster than 4 mechs standing on their base.

getting capped is dumb..or capping for that matter. Its not worth the load in time to gain 200 xp and 30k cbills, and thats a fact

[MischiefSC]

Darkfire66, on 11 March 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Tactics

• An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
  
• The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, esp. during contact with an enemy.
  
  
  
  
  Just saying.

Fair enough. Tactical in context of Conquest or getting a good parking spot at Christmas Time, or snaking the last cookie at a team meeting. I wouldn't call it 'carefully planned' either. Assault is either 'rush X' or 'hold at x'. That's pretty much it. If you're not either base defending or cap-rushing in Assault you're cutting 20% or so off your win/loss rate.

[Adrian Steel]

If you play as a light or medium pilot on a regular basis, you will begin to appreciate the capping mechanism in Assault mode.

Until then, keep slogging around in your high tonnage mechs...they have enough tonnage to hold all the tears.

[Homeless Bill]

Chavette, on 11 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Deathmatches:

Because Base Capture Game Mode is Way Too Complicated For The Average Gamer in 2013

Who said it was too complicated? I simply don't enjoy those modes. I don't call you a ***** for liking ghetto CTF; maybe you shouldn't call me a moron for liking deathmatch.

I play this game to kill big, angry robots with my big, angry robot. To me, capture objectives only impede the primary focus of this game. Call me crazy, but standing next to someone's spawn point is ****-boring in my eyes.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have objective types; I'm simply suggesting implementing an easily programmable mode that has been a staple of the shooter genre since its inception.

Hell, I'll bet objective games would be more fun once you weed out all the people like me who just want to run around and shoot things.

How many successful multiplayer shooters have you seen that don't ship with some sort of deathmatch? I know it'll be in eventually, but of all the things for them to take months to develop...

Those of you that look down on team deathmatch need to get off your high horse and realize not everyone likes to play like you.

[Panzerman03]

Even playing with an 8 man full of heavies and assaults it's easy to strike a balance between psychotic aggression and passive defense that will keep you from getting capped while moving into a strong position to start a brawl from.

Capping is mainly an annoyance in PUG matches where it's not so easy to control your own team, be they the cappers or the suckers getting capped. The only way to make sure the cave gets scouted, for instance, is to bring a light or a medium and do it yourself.

It's not a fun way to end a match, win or lose.

[OneEyed Jack]

The original text of this post was... not very diplomatic. Below I'll attempt to point out the main reason why this thread is pointless and the arguments supporting it's premise are the same. I'm making it big, so that it's hard to miss, and if you care to respond, please think the point below through so that you may at least respond to the point actually made instead of the non-existent points that the previous posts in this thread have touched on.

It's not about losing!

I won't be returning to this thread to read the snarky, trolling remarks. I've said my piece and if you can't understand that simple phrase, no amount of arguing will make you understand.

[Shepherd]

The capture thing is important because it forces diversity. In a straight Team Deathmatch mode only the mechs that are the best killers are worth taking. The player base will trend towards the Assault class. The usefulness of Medium mechs will completely evaporate, and heavies will be marginalized unless they have some unique and powerful characteristic (K2 for example). Gameplay will devolve similarly to how the OP describes - good teams will find an advantageous position and simply will not move.

But since capture is a real threat, you need some faster mechs, and you need some mechs to counter those faster mechs. You can take and hold a great position, but you must actively scout to be sure you're not getting capped. Commanders need to balance what they're doing with the very real possibility of losing to a cap.

It's boring when a team rushes to capture right away. But the game would also be boring if the possibility of a capture was removed entirely.