468 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

Karl Streiger, on 22 April 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

TT:
rounded: 17% CT, 14% Side Torso, 11% Legs, 14% Arms, 2,78% Head or Critical Hit

I expect a ToHitProbability for MWO of CT or Side Torso for an Atlas of 60-80%

Since about 60% of the shots you take in an Atlas hit the center torso, you should be able to put 60% of the armor there. Right now the max armor for center torso is 124 out of 614 total points.

Edited by Kmieciu, 22 April 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kmieciu, on 22 April 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Since about 60% of the shots you take in an Atlas hit the center torso, you should be able to put 60% of the armor there. Right now the max armor for center torso is 124 out of 614 total points.

Hm lets play with that idea....
60% of all armor for the torso...with the remaining 40% for the legs.
Equal spread all over the mechs.
Could be 122 points per torso location and 57 points for each leg.
So people start shooting at the legs...because two legs = 114 armor points.

EDIT:
Ok...
lets say there are two ways to kill a Mech:
Blow its CT
Blow both Legs
Shot for the head Head

How to disarm it? Blow left and right torso.

So:
What about this:
Atlas:
CT = 145 Armor (Rear have to be subtracted)
Legs = 69 Armor (not exactly 50% - because its harder to hit)
Side = 101 Armor (Rear have to be subtracted)
Arms = 51 Armo (roughly 50% of the Arms...so that you can blow of both arms as fast as you can destroy a single torso)
Head...20% of CT armor?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 April 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[Kmieciu]

I never put more that 50 armor points the legs and arms of an Atlas anyway... everybody shoots the center torso.

Edited by Kmieciu, 23 April 2013 - 02:04 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kmieciu, on 23 April 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

I never put more that 50 armor points the legs and arms of an Atlas anyway... everybody shoots the center torso.

Exactly...only reason to go for the legs is the option that the guy didn't used much armor at this loaction and have ammunition on board.
With the average armor of 67 to 81 you can kill a Atlas faster with blowing its torso

[Zyllos]

Karl Streiger, on 22 April 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

TT:
rounded: 17% CT, 14% Side Torso, 11% Legs, 14% Arms, 2,78% Head or Critical Hit

I expect a ToHitProbability for MWO of CT or Side Torso for an Atlas of 60-80%

Redistributing armor based on the type of mech it is would help. Symmertical mechs get symmertical armor allocation. Non-symmertical mechs get non-symmertical armor allocation.

A good example of this is the HBK-4G. That hunch should have more armor than the rest of the mech. A good chunk of the armor from the arms (look how small they are compared to other 50t mechs) and some from the torsos should be allocated to the RT.

It would be interesting to allow players to manually allow for redistribution. The actual rules for how much can be redistributed would have to be looked at an individual mech basis.

But this would make certain builds extremely powerful. The CN9-A build with 2x Medium Lasers and 3x SRM/6 would redistribute as many points from the arms into the torsos.

Edited by Zyllos, 23 April 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Pht]

Mypa333 said:

It's called progress. You wouldn't have been playing MWO if it weren't for all the "bad gameplay and lack of fun" in the previous versions.

The idea of progress requries a standard to progress towards, and in the case of the MW video game, the standard is having the MW video game represent what it is like to pilot a BTUniverse/lore BattleMech in combat in that fictional setting.

MW games have been regressing from this standard, not progressing.

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Then play pen and paper, I like computer simulators and I don't like the idea of STATIC gameplay.

I haven't proposed static gameplay: http://mwomercs.com/...different-idea/

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You are talking about skills here. And I can indicate and track a mech for myself and for my team as I play a light.

I wasn't talking about indicating a target in the sense of picking one, I was specifically talking about using the joystick in the 'Mech's cockpit to control the reticule on the main hud to indicate to the 'Mech you're piloting what specific thing you want your 'Mech to try and hit.

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But I don't believe that lowering my Spider's armor to follow the canon is a solution. I'm already putting almost 80% of my efforts in dodging, hiding, discovering enemy mechs, providing good intel for my team as to what points to attack or defend, to watch their back in case a light comes that way and so on.

The thing that's being hashed over is not just "lowering armor" - the problem is that the current game doesn't have 'Mechs that actually perform in combat like the 'Mechs do in the fictional setting.

Currently, the 'Mechs don't count for virtually anything in the "how combat happens" beyond "my mech moves x fast, torso twists x fast, and can/can't jump."

There is zero simulation of how a BTU BattleMech actually handles and aims its weapons in the game.

We have a 'Mech combat game missing the most important facet of 'Mech combat.

[Pht]

blinkin, on 22 April 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

i understand your point but so far as i can tell what Pht is describing for an aiming system would turn this into world of warcraft with giant robots. <-this may work for some but i personally have already been burned out on WOW. i like having a multi player game that actually rewards skill again. i don't want the mech to aim for me.

i like the direct pilot control with the fairly low tech aiming system. it adds to the flavor of the game and i got my start on the mechwarrior PC games so i am a bit biased on that front.

There's more skill involved in having the 'Mechs behave like they do in the fictional setting than there currently is or has been in the MW video game series.

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Ok, so you simply don't like how the 'Mechs perform in combat in the novels and the rest of the lore.

You don't like what the MW video game genre is and should be. You have essentially said that you don't want the 'Mech's weapons-handling capabilities to count in this game.

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... this also fits in with tabletop.

How does this "fit in" with the tabletop?

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there is a reason why clan pilots get bonuses to hit when using mech weapons, because they have superior training and physical abilities that allow them to be far better shots than the IS guys.

The clanner mechwarriors have a general edge in combat because their training is far more extensive. Their pilots know what their 'Mechs can and can not do and they know how the varying conditions affect their 'Mech better than the average IS Mechwarriors. They are quite literally raised from birth as MechWarriors.

Edited by Pht, 30 April 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Vapor Trail]

The problem with upping the amount of armor on the CT while lowering it from other locations:

As soon as ripping the legs off is easier than an CT kill, we have MW3 straight out of the box gameplay.
Again.


I think it's interesting to note that "the worst rookie" Clan Mechwarrior is only one point (piloting 5, gunnery 4) better than "the worst rookie" IS Mechwarrior (piloting 6, gunnery 4).

Genetically engineered, brought up from birth to be pilots... and the baseline is only about 14% better in piloting than their counterparts in the IS. And pretty much the same in gunnery.