40 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

No the ER-PPCs are still the highest heat weapon in the game.

The lack of a min is one of the prices you pay there.

[Mokou]

High damage? ER PPC have lowest Damage per Heat+Tonnage value.
U can only alpha build for close combat, couse other build will have too low DpS (without overheat).
Alpha build reasonable only for stalker with 6x(ER) PPC. Other mech will fail in close combat to SRM or U-AC/5 mechs.

Also, PPC's have delay before shot.

Edited by Mokou, 11 March 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[IrrelevantFish]

This is a terrible idea . ER-PPCs longer max range is only occasionally useful for cross-the-map pot-shots (which rarely do much good) and produce such ridiculous quantities of heat that they're essentially only weapons of last resort up close. Even on an Atlas, managing the heat of just a pair of them is a little tricky. If it weren't for the minimum range issue, I'd switch to standard PPCs in a heartbeat.

As for the Gauss Rifle, I don't understand why people would think they need nerfing. They're heavy, bulky, have a long cool-down, need ammo, and have a slower projectile speed than PPCs. IMO, that more than counter-balances the low heat, long range, and high damage.

[Malevolent Twitch]

It is my understanding that the ER stands for Extended Range. While that commonly means longer range, it also means that the effective range bracket has been increased. The PPC has a minimum range, the ERPPC does not. Ergo, the ERPPCs range has been increased. It just so happens that the maximum range of the weapon has also been increased. I see no problem here.

[General Taskeen]

focuspark, on 10 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

It's OFF now. Damage degrades to zero as range is reduced from 90m to 0.

What I mean is, they could change it up a bit

When, Off, Full Damage between 0-89m (like an ER-PPC), however risk damage feedback or PPC exploding
When, On, as it is where PPC damage degrades

Technically, it is actually in the On position, since it causes the PPC to degrade in damage output between 0-89m, since the Field Inhibitor is causing the PPC's damage output to decrease to reduce risk of explosion.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 March 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Monky]

ER PPC's are only practical in very small numbers, and even then two constantly firing can overwhelm almost any mech's heat capacity.

Edited by Monky, 11 March 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[4er3BaPa]

ER PPC use extended focused technology, has no minimum effective range, extended range negate high heat level.
but i think, at very close range splash damage hit both mech must be

[DrFunkatron]

PPC's in general, ER or not, are just not dangerous unless your team supports you. I don't care what you've got them on, they just aren't as scary as they should be.

[shotokan5]

Never as long as their life in my body. The PPC is in itstlf underpowered. Now lets nurf so its useless. ER more heat a fair trade

[John MatriX82]

Khobai, on 10 March 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

ERPPCS should not have minimum ranges.

Gauss Rifles should.

I agree with the first, disagree with the latter. ER ppcs still generate a huge heat output, therefore using them at point blank makes them unreliable unless you want to stay shut down for minutes.

GRs don't need min range, it's a damn ballistic, bullet speed it's higher at the muzzle not 90m away from the gun. Do you want to introduce GR min range? Fine, then proportionally increase damage at higher ranges (more than the actual 15) since the kinetic effect should be fairly higher.

GR explodes like nothing in cqb, their bullet speed has stood the same by months, if you use them for CQB you're nearly mad. Add also the min range and the gun can throw itself in the trash.

[DrFunkatron]

To proove a point, i just blasted a fellow catapult in the arm a full, dead on, 10 times... arm was still active.... range is unimportant when the gun does no ******* damage 90% of the time.

[M4rtyr]

Sybreed, on 10 March 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

In short: No

ER PPC are furnaces strapped on your mech. Your third Alpha will likely shut you down so just try to dodge the shots if you're quick, or turn around to make different part of your mech take the hits.

Better yet let an Atlas or lights get their attention first then beat him down.

But no, ERPPC shouldn't have minimum range. It's part of the trade of between the PPC's, longer range, more heat, no min.

[Pht]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 10 March 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

PPC should not have a min range, erppc should. not tt, yes, game balanced, yes.

"Balance" - the end-all-be-all wholly ambiguous catchword that nobody will ever define... that, functionally, ends any chance at meaningful discussion... because nobody knows what the heck you mean by said word.

[Corvus Antaka]

Pht, on 16 March 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

"Balance" - the end-all-be-all wholly ambiguous catchword that nobody will ever define... that, functionally, ends any chance at meaningful discussion... because nobody knows what the heck you mean by said word.

Actually engineers and many scientists understand balance quite well.

Mathematically balance is easy to define.

And good, balanced video games are in fact very balanced by numbers.

Sadly all to often this is missed by people who fail to understand balance.

[Pht]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 17 March 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Actually engineers and many scientists understand balance quite well. Mathematically balance is easy to define. And good, balanced video games are in fact very balanced by numbers. Sadly all to often this is missed by people who fail to understand balance.

...

You haven't defined the word at all, as it's being applied.


If people understand it, they should be able to define it.

[Corvus Antaka]

Pht, on 19 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

...

You haven't defined the word at all, as it's being applied.


If people understand it, they should be able to define it.

That doesn't mean everyone else can understand it. The definition of balance is a google away, the understanding of it is infinity in the making.

[Pht]

Definition of balance

noun

• 
  1an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady:slipping in the mud but keeping their balance she lost her balance before falling
  
• 
  stability of one’s mind or feelings:the way to some kind of peace and personal balance
  
• 
  Sailing the ability of a boat to stay on course without adjustment of the rudder.

• 
  2a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions:overseas investments can add balance to an investment portfolio [in singular]:try to keep a balance between work and relaxation
  
• 
  Art harmony of design and proportion.
  
• 
  [in singular] the relative volume of various sources of sound:the balance of the voices is good

• 
  3an apparatus for weighing, especially one with a central pivot, beam, and a pair of scales.
  
• 
  (the Balance) the zodiacal sign or constellation Libra.

• 
  4a counteracting weight or force.
  
• 
  (also balance wheel) the regulating device in a mechanical clock or watch.

• 
  5a predominating weight or amount; the majority:the balance of opinion was that work was more important than leisure

• 
  6a figure representing the difference between credits and debits in an account; the amount of money held in an account:he accumulated a healthy balance with the savings bank
  
• 
  the difference between an amount due and an amount paid:unpaid credit-card balances
  
• 
  [in singular] an amount left over.

verb
[with object]

• 
  1keep or put (something) in a steady position so that it does not fall:a mug that she balanced on her knee
  
• 
  [no object] remain in a steady position without falling:Richard balanced on the ball of one foot

• 
  2offset or compare the value of (one thing) with another:the cost of obtaining such information needs to be balanced against its benefits
  
• 
  counteract, equal, or neutralize the weight or importance of:he balanced his radical remarks with more familiar declarations
  
• 
  establish equal or appropriate proportions of elements in:balancing work and family life

• 
  3compare debits and credits in (an account), typically to ensure that they are equal:the law requires the council to balance its books each year
  
• 
  [no object] (of an account) have credits and debits equal.

Phrases



balance of payments



balance of power

• 
  1a situation in which nations of the world have roughly equal power.

• 
  2the power held by a small group when larger groups are of equal strength.

balance of trade



in the balance



on balance



strike a balance


the difference in total value between payments into and out of a country over a period.

the difference in value between a country’s imports and exports.

uncertain; at a critical stage:his survival hung in the balance for days

with all things considered:but on balance he was pleased

choose a moderate course or compromise:she’s decided to strike a balance between fashionable and accessible
Derivatives



balancer
noun

Origin:

Middle English (balance (sense 3 of the noun)): from Old French balance (noun), balancer (verb), based on late Latin (libra) bilanx '(balance) having two scalepans', from bi- 'twice, having two' + lanx 'scalepan'

http://oxforddiction...english/balance

Ok, now how does this help clarify the situation?

The word has multiple meanings.

If the poster doesn't give the context necessary to understand what kind of "balance" they're referring to nobody knows what they mean.

You can mean "everything is equal but just looks different," or "elite players should always pwn non-elites" or "player skill must always count under all conditions" ... etc, etc, etc.

I'm not trying to be snarky - all the discussion of "balance" is useless when we don't know what someone means when they say "balance."

[Corvus Antaka]

Go stand on a log in the ocean.

Maybe that'll help you figure it out.

[UberFubarius]

I mount PPC on my K2 and had great success with it (even more than using ERPPC), why?
At the extended range that ERPPC would've been more useful than PPC, your enemy generally have covers to hide in (and most likely have some AC/2 to pelt you with). Plus, you overheat fast. In short, the extended range didn't offer that much benefit when compared to the heat it gives you.
At sub 90m range, the damage/heat is bad enough that I'll overheat long before I do any significant damage with ERPPC, instead my medium pulse laser is much more reliable.

ERPPC generates 3 more heat than PPC, which translates to 1 addition Heat-per-seconds. 1 HPS is the output of 1 small laser.
With my K2 using Endo + Double heatsink, I noticed that with PPC and a pair of pulse medium laser (I've got tonnage to spare), I've a lot more success. At > 90m, I can fire my PPC continuously for a very long time (on cold maps, my cool-down is almost fast enough for me to just hold down the fire button on my twin PPC without overheating). At closer range, I can fire my medium pulse laser continuous without ever over-heating except on hotter maps.

Edited by UberFubarius, 20 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Pht]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 20 March 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

Go stand on a log in the ocean.

Maybe that'll help you figure it out.

MWO is not a log in the ocean.

----

Do you think a balanced game is one in which everything has an equal chance of working,

OR...

Do you think a balanced game is one in which NOT everything has an equal chance of working,

OR

Something else?