27 replies to this topic

[Xenois Shalashaska]

G-day people of mechwarrior online forum sanctuary of die hard prophets & believers.

Just analysing the dragon mech & its seems like a go getter mech with decent speed/ armour and weapons.

The obvious down fall of this mech is its design shape. The first i noticed is a massive right arm with its main armament of a ac5 which people will probly upgrade to 2x ac10 or ac20 for bigger punch & replace the lrm10 with srm 6 of such. If that arm is blowm off i expect that more than half its fighting efficiency dropped.

"LIKE BOOM YOU AINT KILLIN NOTHING QUICK"

The second flaw with that mech is that "centre torso" is a massive buldge that protrudes out by like 20kilometres & most likey will be ripped to shredd by all ballistic weaponary.

Then if you think about the catapult as the second heavy in the line up. It has the same fate with the exception that the left torso & right torso protrude just as the centre torso. The survivability is more likely to the catapult excusing the part where the arms are its weapons & are even more easily blown apart.

So just as the matrix, the problem is choice. You have already made the choice but do you understand why. Its the purpose that binds us, creates us, purpose that drives us. Its the purpose that controls us.

[HellJumper]

dragon wins...

[Quentin Yatoki]

They are very different mechs for very different roles. The Dragon is fast (84kph) and has a variety of weapon types, carrying a Autocannon, a LRM system and medium lasers. It's the closest thing we currently have to a "true" medium mech role wise. It can move to and fill the holes where it is needed easily. i.e. Jack of all trades, master of none.

The Catapult on the other hand is a specialists mech. In it's two base configs, it is either a long range indirect fire mech with 2 LRM15s or a powerful long range "Mech Destroyer" with dual PPCs. While it has Jump Jets, those are to get it out of trouble and to reach superior firing positions. It does have some close combat punch in 4 MLAS however, but it is better served as a Fire Support unit.

One isn't better then the other, it's more a matter of figuring what role on the battlefield you want play.

[Adridos]

It's got lackluster armor and I don't think you can put an AC/10 on that mech, let alone AC/20.

Small punch and armor makes this mech a lot less than what you're describing.

[Shredhead]

I like the Dragon so I voted "Ja" <--- I see what you did there, I see very well! While it really has a massive torso its arms aren't that easy to hit, I think. And no, we'll all change to DRG 1G, changing the AC 5 for a PPC and call it a "Grand Dragon". And it earns that name, I promise!

[Redshift2k5]

Overall the Dragon has less damage output than the Catapult, but ceertainly more ability to run to where it needs to be and extricate itself from a tough scenario. It shouldn't be too hard to put an AC/10 in the Dragon, but obviously for anything you add you must take away something elsewhere. Upgrading to FF armor or endosteel structure may give you the weight to add weapons with more punch, but at the cost of taking up critical space(and reducing your ability to add more weapons or equipment to boot)

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

if you're getting hit in your catapult you have bigger things to worry about than armor layout.

I'd be a fan of switching the party racks for some ppc's but only if i get to keep my jump jets

[Sesambrot]

Kinda off topic; what do you have against german answers?
I for one would only like to replace "Ja" with "Jawohl!"

Aside of that, I agree with what Quentin Yatoki said...
I don't really think you can compare the two, they are two different mechs designed for different roles, and I for one am not eager to pilot either of them, at least not in their standard config.

[Kudzu]

Adridos, on 29 May 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

It's got lackluster armor and I don't think you can put an AC/10 on that mech, let alone AC/20.

Small punch and armor makes this mech a lot less than what you're describing.

10 tons of armor is nothing to sneeze at, and if you play around long enough you'd be amazed at the weapons load-outs you can fit on the Dragon.

[SweetJackal]

Adridos, on 29 May 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

It's got lackluster armor and I don't think you can put an AC/10 on that mech, let alone AC/20.

Small punch and armor makes this mech a lot less than what you're describing.

Fitting an AC-10 into a Dragon means needing to find a way to free up 4 tonnes. Fitting an AC-20 means freeing up 6 tonnes first. Considering that the LRM-10 it sports takes up 5 tonnes on it's own and has it's own tonnage used for ammo, fitting an AC-20 is easy if you're planning on making it a close range brawler. You can further build on this by switching to FF armor to squeeze in a light SRM and ammo.

But if I do remember right, an arm doesn't have the crit space needed to fit 2 AC-10s, you'd have to use the old BT TT rule of allowing side torso crit slots to be used as overflow for the arm(?)

All of this is without touching the overall armor values or the tonnage and crits devoted to the engine and armor.

[Zack Delphirian]

I think from now on, all polls "yes or no" answers should be in german, but with "javohl herr general" and "Kaputt" for answers !

As for the subject, well one of the first answers got it right : you can't compare an all-around mech with a specialized one...I prefere the looks of the catapult and I think it's an veery good mech for fire support, but in a straight one-on-one combat, dragon would probably win...I guess

[Sleepy Head]

Lol, the poll allows for visitors to vote on every single option within the same poll.

On topic, the catapult is a 'mech that is going to be firing at you from far away. It is common sense that a target far away is harder to hit, so it's only fair the center torse is easier to hit. This logic does that mean that all brawlers should have tiny center torsos, because here the Dragon has a long torso with plenty of surface area. Maybe the torso of the Dragon will be compensated with far more amor.

[StarSlayer40]

I have personally liked the Catapult ever since i saw it, the Dragon looks like a pretty good 'mech, and could fill in a couple of various roles fairly nicely I think.

Also, for the third question, does nein (no) mean "no I don't want you to use German for yes/no answers and ja (yes) mean yes I want you to use German for yes/no questions...or is it the other way around?

[Riin Suul]

the dragon looks like it will be a lot of fun to play with in mechlab

also, I voted for all 6 choices XD

[Aethon]

I can't vote in your poll, since I can't figure out what, exactly, the question of the poll is. It's not that I don't understand your post; I just can't understand which question you're asking.

[SideSt3p]

I'm honestly not sure what I even voted on so I'll just explain what I think LOL.

I think these two 'Mechs are very different objective wise. The Catapult is a Fire-Support 'Mech. The Dragon is a harasser and "Stop-Gap" 'Mech. Meaning it moves quickly across the field to fill in spots and gaps opened up by an advancing force. Lets say you've got a flank that turns into a wedged drive. Your flank gets turned and you need a fast 'Mech (that can actually do something to the enemy force) to get their quickly and do dmg so they don't just rip apart the entire rear of your line.

So I think they're both very useful. We'll just have to see how they play once we're able to play

[Naqel]

Meh, I'll probably change my Dragon to have SRM's in the torso and an AC/2 in the arm.

That way losing the arm won't mean the end of the world, and I should be able to put more/bigger lasers on it.

[Madddog]

Problem with the Dragon is that it sucks. period. under gunned for a heavy, a bushwacker has double the fire power.

[Athena Hart]

Nien mate, stick with the german.. I may not be full German (Japanese/Hawaiian Dads side) but is nice for a change.

As for the Mechs.. Dragon all the way. always liked this mech though the original "look" always bothered me. Piranahs take on it makes it look good. As for armaments. Its well armed and don't forget the Lg Laser and PPC variants which later became standards for the Grand Dragon.

Wouldn't pilot a Catapult as its primarily a Fire Support Mech. I always hated piloting these as I was constantly worried about someone breaching the torso armor and getting a crit on the ammo and watch the Cat go up in flames. (Unless I was lucky and had exhausted the LRM ammo) And yes.. It had 4 Med Lasers but those are really just there to support the LRM if something gets too close.

[Kudzu]

Madddog, on 29 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Problem with the Dragon is that it sucks. period. under gunned for a heavy, a bushwacker has double the fire power.

When you put the same level of tech on a Dragon that the Bushwacker has on it...