9 replies to this topic

[Geadron Kane]

Can anyone please let me know the specifics or provide a link to how matches are made by the system?

I do not think most people that have not played the TT realized that a match can be lost before it even starts based on just the mech load-outs. I have seen quite a few matches where things were so unbalanced it has lead me to wonder how this system actually works.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

the "theory" : .. ELO ranks players based on if they win when they should have lost (bigger boost in ELO rating), lost when they should have (minimal change) or won when they should have (small gain in ranking). "Should have" is a "guess" by the match making engine based on the ELO ranking of each team (which it sets based on if it guessed right or wrong over time).

Second bit is, it's -supposed- to try and balance out weight classes on teams. Spider on this team? .. then Raven on the other (or some other light).. So, again in theory, each side should weigh roughly the same in the same number of packages.. I've found -this- mechanic to be horribly broken at times (3 lights on one team on Alpine Conquest, NO lights or fast mechs on the other team.. guess who wins -every time-).

So.. in theory.. teams should be roughly weighted the same in both mech classes and player skill.. and yet, we still see lots of 8:0 wipes, teams with 6 very new players, teams with 4 Raven 3Ls (with ECM) to 1 or 2 lights on the other team.. etc etc.

Some say, "give it time! ELO is new and the ranking system hasn't shaken everything out to where it belongs yet!".. but I say "the ELO ranking/guessing system is horribly flawed, teams often are not close to mech balanced, and you can't have a "match maker" that's considered a success when it fills ONE side first then trickles in the other side, only to leave up to TWO PLAYERS MISSING from one team". Oh, then you have the failure of removing disconnected players that drop while teams are still being filled.. instead of dumping that disconnect and putting in a real player, the match maker just lets the game go on while scewed.

[Baltasar]

Matchmaker, sadly, does not take into account the load outs of the mechs either. So, at lower ELOs, you are likely to run into some odd builds from time to time I'd imagine or even middle of the road ELO if someone is just testing a build (although hopefully testing grounds will help cut this down some what).

[SuomiWarder]

Straight from the horse's mouth...

http://mwomercs.com/...79-matchmaking/

[Geadron Kane]

I am stunned that ECM and LRM loadouts are not part of the balance. I could understand the use of the ELO system if this game was more like your typical shooter, but even in shooters one can choose spawn location and class.

Thx for clarifying this all for me.

[T0rmented]

The thing I find best is that the devs have shoehorned ELO to matchmake a team game, for those who dont know ELO was originally designed for ranking chess players. Thats right, we are using a system designed for 1v1 play to determine fair teams (note individual ELO does not matter as the ELO of the team is all that MM uses) look even wikipedia says a system used for 2 person games http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

Edited by T0rmented, 12 March 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Hellen Wheels]

T0rmented, on 12 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

The thing I find best is that the devs have shoehorned ELO to matchmake a team game, for those who dont know ELO was originally designed for ranking chess players. Thats right, we are using a system designed for 1v1 play to determine fair teams

You overlook the fact that ELO is also used for team v. team chess matches, albeit to match the closest ranked players, as is done in chess tourneys when ranking the brackets from Interzonals on up to the world championship. Which is the point.

From class E (USCF) chess player on up through the highest Grandmasters (in FIDE) you're going to get pretty fair matches when it counts.

Which I think IPG is aiming for. I applaud their effort. Not sure why so many complain about it--I seem to get a pretty fair shake when it comes to where I wind up (and with whom.)

Cheers!
=H=

[Insane Lobottomie]

If anyone noticed the wiki.. it's elo rating in games/sports/etc where players have the same equipment and physical properties.

Since we are playing a game that has lots of different equipment and physical properties this elo can not be taken into account.


I just want to point one example out of a wrong use for elo:

Marksman with a BB gun hits a target painted on the wall and leaves a smudge right in the middle of the target.
Marksman with an Elephant gun hits the same target right on the smudge and leaves a hole in the wall..

Both takes same skill of hitting the target right on.
Just the equipment made the difference not the skill of the one shooting the gun.

Yes they have elo for each mech class. But inside that mech class the diversity in equipment and abilities is too much for elo to work properly. That is why we see now what elo is failing at. For example matches with 6 ecm mechs on one side and none on the other.

At the moment there are 3 key factors that define and most likely win a game and to my experience actually in this order:

• Mech battle value: is weight/speed/equipment/capabilities factor better than the other team
  
• Group communication: is there a group with (voice) comms and are they majority of the drop.
  
• Gaming skill: now called elo but i like more to call this player capability of piloting a mech well.

Yes u can join a group on an ts server. That will change the playing field a bit.

But u have no control what so ever to work out the inbalance of mechs fielded between you and the other side than just the luck of the draw.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Insane Lobottomie, on 12 March 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yes they have elo for each mech class.

At the moment there are 3 key factors that define and most likely win a game and to my experience actually in this order:

• Mech battle value: is weight/speed/equipment/capabilities factor better than the other team

ELO is per player, not mech class. I can be in my altas or my spider, and I bring the same ELO to the table.. or I can be in my new Jenner on a first run, same ELO in the math for my contribution.

Also, battle value of a mech seems relative.. since I've already eaten away at an Atlas in my Spider, solo, and killed it.. it just takes longer than when I meet another Altas in my D-DC. Something to be said for patience.

Edited by CmdrPoopyPants, 12 March 2013 - 01:54 PM.

[T0rmented]

Hellen Wheels, on 12 March 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

You overlook the fact that ELO is also used for team v. team chess matches, albeit to match the closest ranked players, as is done in chess tourneys when ranking the brackets from Interzonals on up to the world championship. Which is the point.

And how does a team chess match work oh wait its a boatload of 1v1's and the side with most wins, wins. ELO whilst used in more than just chess and in 'actual' team games is not designed for anything other than 1v1 and therefore loses its accuracy in anything other than a 1v1 situation

Edited by T0rmented, 12 March 2013 - 04:26 PM.