46 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

This bug is too aggressive and too consistent for me to play this game anymore. It makes this game a horrible chore to play.

If PGI ever figures out how to make a game built for computers newer than 2004 I'll be happy to come back, but DX9, failing support for switchable chipsets, constant interface and crash bugs, and honestly everything else wrong with this game. I don't have a lot of hope that they'll fix a bug that only effects most new laptops with nvidia chipsets.

PGI doesn't want me as a player and I don't want to be a player anymore.

[Riddlez]

Tarl, I appreciate the explanation. However, how you would do what you suggested would be more helpful.

How would you go about throttling the CPU/GPU as you've described? Do you know the set values that may have been used in similar cases?

[Tarl Cabot]

Riddlez, on 28 March 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Tarl, I appreciate the explanation. However, how you would do what you suggested would be more helpful.

How would you go about throttling the CPU/GPU as you've described? Do you know the set values that may have been used in similar cases?

Running App/program that provides real time update on CPU speed, usage and fan controls.

1. Disable Turbo Boost. Set to 97%-98%
Disabling Intel Turbo Boost - Tautvidas Sipavičius

2. Ensuring it is using the nvidia mobility card http://mwomercs.com/...graphics-cards/

3. Disabling Aero if using Vista/Win7.

4. Disabling services not needed, like File Indexing, MS Media Sharing, to name a few.

5. Use of MSI Afterburner will allow tuning of GPU speeds

[Shumabot]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Running App/program that provides real time update on CPU speed, usage and fan controls.

1. Disable Turbo Boost. Set to 97%-98%
Disabling Intel Turbo Boost - Tautvidas Sipavičius

2. Ensuring it is using the nvidia mobility card http://mwomercs.com/...graphics-cards/

3. Disabling Aero if using Vista/Win7.

4. Disabling services not needed, like File Indexing, MS Media Sharing, to name a few.

5. Use of MSI Afterburner will allow tuning of GPU speeds

So generic, non targeted suggestions that you would give to anyone suffering any sort of performance issue? Those aren't exactly helpful and most of them have been posted previously and do nothing. The only thing there I haven't done is install MSI Afterburner. This isn't a hardware performance issue, this is just plainly bad coding on the part of PGI.

Edited by Shumabot, 29 March 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[The Magus]

simplest ideas: run crap cleaner (back up reg files b4 removing), update/run virus scan,, reinstall graphic drivers (full removal/reinstall) check/update dx files, check your graphic settings for mwo, maybe you have a setting checked that's too aggressive for your games performance ie- antialiasing too high.

[Tarl Cabot]

hai, it is with laptops. Until the user uses the tools at hand to eliminate or isolate the reason for the temp FPS drop, all that can be given are generic responses.

MWO may not be optimized but it does not mean it is not the only issue either, especially with laptops. Manufacturers configure laptops with attempts to satisfy several needs while trying to keep it with a specific threshold, from heat generation, battery life, basic functions, etc. And Intel/AMD also makes changes so that the consumer will buy newer things.

Those changes does not mean they are really upgrades. Take a few laptop users who were running older mobile cpu without turbo boost ability. They upgraded to newer laptops but the FPS took a nose dive and that partially due to Turbo boost. One user ran monitoring programs, one which monitored the temp for each core and speed that indicated the spike in CPU speed on one core, huge heat increase then the overall CPU speed dropping below base speed to cut down on the heat being generated to allow cool down.

This is not the only game that has had issues with laptops and that is due to how laptops are built and their limitations. And for MSI Afterburner or other programs, under clocking the GPU benefit by reducing heat build up. If the FPS drops has a cyclic symmetry, then one needs to look at where that symmetry may be, and laptops are more prone to CPU temporary speed boost (new wave overclocking) to CPU/GPU throttling.

(chuckles) Who here owned a Dell Inspiron/XPS laptop, and had issues with fan speeds not increasing when needed, thus needing to use a 3rd party program to manually control those fans. Or issues with AMD Cool&Quiet causing erratic gaming issues/speeds due to CPU throttling up/down (not speedstep as much).

(shrugs) For the average user who may not know how to utilize the tools available to troubleshoot issues between a game and issue, it comes down to generic responses based on the feedback provided.

Never mind the issues with drive updates and driver incompatibilities or conflicts. It can be the luck of the draw that for one system a driver update wreaks havoc while with another no issues at all. Or multiple users are having to use a much older driver than others to play a specific game. Or laptop users having to resort to modified desktop drivers due to no further updates from the general manufacturer. Or the user simply not updating bio/chipset drivers.

And tech support can be a loveless profession.. (looks at wall with someone's forehead imprints on it...)

(shrugs) I'll stop now.

[Riddlez]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 March 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Running App/program that provides real time update on CPU speed, usage and fan controls.

1. Disable Turbo Boost. Set to 97%-98%
Disabling Intel Turbo Boost - Tautvidas Sipavičius

2. Ensuring it is using the nvidia mobility card http://mwomercs.com/...graphics-cards/

3. Disabling Aero if using Vista/Win7.

4. Disabling services not needed, like File Indexing, MS Media Sharing, to name a few.

5. Use of MSI Afterburner will allow tuning of GPU speeds

Hey Tarl,

Disabling Turboboost was new to me, I didn't realize how foolish of a technology it was. I had to drop my max power to 97% for it to work with 1 hiccup here and there (temp gets to about 80-85 -Tj of 100). Now I just need to deal with the triangles of doom (color distortion). Tech support has told me that it was supposed to be removed after updating to the newest nvidia drivers (314.22) -however appears to them be a problem yet to be fixed on the nvidia drivers side.

As for the GPU, was it tuning up or down that would be necessary for a system choked by the CPU with Turboboost?

Shumabot, on 29 March 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

So generic, non targeted suggestions that you would give to anyone suffering any sort of performance issue? Those aren't exactly helpful and most of them have been posted previously and do nothing. The only thing there I haven't done is install MSI Afterburner. This isn't a hardware performance issue, this is just plainly bad coding on the part of PGI.

Shumabot, your frustration is understandable. I signed up as a legendary founder and was unable to play until since last October as the details of the problem that we currently facing (your CPU is a turbo as well) are only be coming clear and concise now -not when they first appeared. Throttle your CPU (use the instructions to set the min and max power to 98% and run a game, if that doesn't help, lower it to 97% and so on) it should result in a gradual stabilization of the game play, but you have to realize that the limitation is thermal -so you will have to let your computer cool down between matches as you lower the power management in order to ensure that any poor FPS during your testing is not a result of residual heat from any previous settings.

Tarl Cabot, on 29 March 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

hai, it is with laptops. Until the user uses the tools at hand to eliminate or isolate the reason for the temp FPS drop, all that can be given are generic responses.

MWO may not be optimized but it does not mean it is not the only issue either, especially with laptops. Manufacturers configure laptops with attempts to satisfy several needs while trying to keep it with a specific threshold, from heat generation, battery life, basic functions, etc. And Intel/AMD also makes changes so that the consumer will buy newer things.

Those changes does not mean they are really upgrades. Take a few laptop users who were running older mobile cpu without turbo boost ability. They upgraded to newer laptops but the FPS took a nose dive and that partially due to Turbo boost. One user ran monitoring programs, one which monitored the temp for each core and speed that indicated the spike in CPU speed on one core, huge heat increase then the overall CPU speed dropping below base speed to cut down on the heat being generated to allow cool down.

This is not the only game that has had issues with laptops and that is due to how laptops are built and their limitations. And for MSI Afterburner or other programs, under clocking the GPU benefit by reducing heat build up. If the FPS drops has a cyclic symmetry, then one needs to look at where that symmetry may be, and laptops are more prone to CPU temporary speed boost (new wave overclocking) to CPU/GPU throttling.

(chuckles) Who here owned a Dell Inspiron/XPS laptop, and had issues with fan speeds not increasing when needed, thus needing to use a 3rd party program to manually control those fans. Or issues with AMD Cool&Quiet causing erratic gaming issues/speeds due to CPU throttling up/down (not speedstep as much).

(shrugs) For the average user who may not know how to utilize the tools available to troubleshoot issues between a game and issue, it comes down to generic responses based on the feedback provided.

Never mind the issues with drive updates and driver incompatibilities or conflicts. It can be the luck of the draw that for one system a driver update wreaks havoc while with another no issues at all. Or multiple users are having to use a much older driver than others to play a specific game. Or laptop users having to resort to modified desktop drivers due to no further updates from the general manufacturer. Or the user simply not updating bio/chipset drivers.

And tech support can be a loveless profession.. (looks at wall with someone's forehead imprints on it...)

(shrugs) I'll stop now.

Tarl, a few points out of a desire to make the world a better place regardless of those that may choose otherwise. I can tell from what you've written that you genuinely wanted to help and from what I can tell like to when you can. Explaining the 'meta-game' of computer support (or relationships, science, etc.) to a person who just wants to have their problem solved is now necessarily going to help them (that's a topic I can talk about in length). Buried in your response was what Shumabot needs to hear: turboboosted CPU's in laptops (which you have) paired with a gaming GPU does not suit the purpose of gaming. Turboboost is intended for systems that have a temporary increase in CPU load which results in a spike the temperature of the system; however, gaming is a constant stress on a system and the CPU cannot sustain the higher performance which forces it to slow down periodically. The periodic changes to the CPU speed that is then happening independent of GPU drivers makes it difficult to manage heat generation and process synchronization with the GPU. Because the GPU is capable of taking more of the load off the CPU than the CPU "thinks", the CPU does not need to turboboost -so to prevent the CPU overheating, you can limit the power to the CPU so that the GPU can predict the constant upper limit of the CPU load and effectively synchronize data processing. (please tell me if I mis-communicated any details -this is my inference from what you've said, my own understanding of computers and knowledge of heat transfer)

I say this because the nature of your last post is on the "here's a story, if you don't get it or me, then "Oh, well.... I can't do anything else. I guess that people will simply continue being thankless."" Something that I've learned is that if you every are in the position to help someone, you are never thanked immediately for your help and most of the time you will never receive it. Their satisfaction is typically proportional to how much you can prevent yourself from getting drawn into their problems by explaining them. If you can directly address the issue, say so. If you can't, [say so]/[say nothing]. You are doing a good thing(helping others). However some advice: simply do it, be confident you did it and realize that their lack of thanks simply means you need to work on the way deliver of the message not you ability to perceive the problem.