17 replies to this topic

[CHWarpath]

This is am example of a typical game now. At first LRMS's were overpowered (still are) then the devs decided to throw in ECM as a stop gap which is way overpowered and crucial to winning a match now aka putting a a band-aid on the problem but creating more problems. So with ECM rampant, people have dropped their LRMS and streaks and replaced them with SRM's. Notice the A1 mech (6 missile hard points) has put out more damage than even heavy mechs on either team and has all of the kills. Its also interesting to note the Commando 2D, which is armed with 3 streaks, one medium laser, ECM of course, and has put out 500 damage. This is a constant site in these matches and its because of the lack of foresight on the part of the devs. Dropping damage on weapons increases total time to kill and making weapons more skill based raises the fun factor, it does not lower it. Don't take my word for it, go take a look at Riot's League of Legends where skill is the name of the game. So do you want millions of players or are you happy with 10,000?

Edited by CHWarpath, 11 March 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

I would agree, I think all missiles do need a damage drop. On top of the damage they do with a direct hit, there is a splash damage factor as well. This means missiles do way more damage than the stated 2.5 (SRM & SSRM) or 1.8 (LRM). Don't take my word for it though. Drop into a test round and use an SRM2 on the dummy commando. Stand back 30-40 meters (so there is no spread) and shoot center torso until it goes down. Try this with a medium laser and compare. I would suggest LRMs need to drop to 1.0 and SRM down to 1.5 to keep them more inline with other weapons. Just for the record, I am not a missile hater....I put missiles on every mech I can. I agree with the OP that this would go a long way toward reducing ridiculous LRM spam, and make the game last longer and more fun.

[Joe Mallad]

I agree... But instead of 1.0 on LRMs and 1.5 for the SSRM/SRM... I'd take it down to 1.5 LRM and 2.0 SSRM/SRM. Try that for a few weeks and if that's still not enough, then reduce more. 1.0 and 1.5 may be to much to fast.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 12 March 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Yours is probably the probably the better idea Yoseful.

[Joe Mallad]

Wolf87535, on 12 March 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Yours is probably the probably the better idea Yoseful.

thank you. I mean, we all know missiles are still not RIGHT where they need to be. But I do believe dropping the damage to low will just make them useless again. And I for one know that they don't need a damage buff like some want lol. All that will do is cause those same people to scream nerf once the clans come and their LRMs can hit point blank lol.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 12 March 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[DanielZX]

Yes LRM boats are still overpowered sometimes (I own lrm awesome with 60 lrms - can do more then 1k dmg easily), good players can use terrain to find cover on some maps -true, devs implemented ECM in the game when ECM was totaly unbalanced and even now when they have A LOT OF information about what ECM have caused they do nothing. But for sure everyone should will agree that it is idiotic when you run lrm boat and you met with Atlas-ddc who just walks to you firing and you can do nothing against him, plus if ECM mech is close enough you even can't use TAG to lock-on other targets who are far enough from you.It is enough single ECM mech to block lrm boats if you don't have ecm mech in your team too.

I agree that all missiles need dmg drop, but in my opinion also devs should enhance defensive capability of AMS - currently it is pretty useless especially against heavy lrm boats.

Edited by Zin, 12 March 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[Khobai]

Missiles need a damage drop and ECM needs to not effect them at all.

[Jack Lowe]

Unfortnately I disagree that ECM should not affect missles at all. The damage drop thing yes probably. I would address the fact that still u can get hit on nothing but ur front facting armor but all or most of the LRM damage is trasferred to ur rear allowing LRMs to one shot u, been the victim of that a few times. After that is fixed then look at nerfing them but with more accurate data. SplatCat's are a good indicator that a downward adjustment is necessary. As to the ECM question well it's definatily broke, no doubt. I thing doing things a little more measured is a better ticket. First allow BAP to be a counter to ECM in a limited fashion forget this ECM jamming crap. That just means u need even MORE ECM for ur group to fight effectively, make BAP something useful instead. Second allow missle locks when YOU are inside the ECM umbrella and able to get a target lock. It's an individual thing not transmitted to the rest of ur group. That is in fact how all targeting data is suppose to work unless ur unit is equiped with a C3 system. This would allow limited use of SSRM's again and would counter the swarming lights with ECM's we're seeing now. After that see how it plays out for a few weeks and reassess.

For the record I like the basic principle behind ECM. The stealth ablility is a much needed addition for lights. Since every mech comes stock with C3 masters and slaves the way this game is made, ECM is vital for their survival and ability to fullfill their role effectively. However in it's current state u look around and don't see at least 2 lights and 2 ECM's on ur side u know from that point on ur in for a stomping a very high percentage of the time.

Edited by Jack Lowe, 12 March 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[FerretWithASpork]

How come whenever i create a thread complaining about LRMs I get flamed to hell but this one's not? >.>

I completely agree, All missiles need their damage cut. I think 1.0/1.5 is too much of a cut and I think 1.5/2.0 is too little.. 1.3/1.8 is my suggestion.

I STILL think that LRM ammo/T needs to be reduced significantly as well. They should not be an all-match weapon. LRMs should not be spammable.. they should be a support weapon.

Edited by FerretWithASpork, 12 March 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Mr Bombastic]

Personally i am against any drastic counter measure. I've been playing a lot of different games in the past years and it's always the same trend: it always degenerates in one way or another. I'd like you to analyze this balancing problem from a pragmatic point of view, so please try to avoid any biased comment based on your most loved Battlemech.
I think you will agree with me when i say that actually the so called "missile boats" are a low risk high reward setups, and even if it is possible to avoid the missiles by standing behind obstacles offered by terrains, not always this is allowed due to terrain configurations. In fact the maps are designed so that the players simply HAVE to get out in the open soon or later, or just sit in a boring stalemate where everyone sits behind a cover and noone is doing anything worth mentioning (the situation would change with destructible map object and terrains, but that's another issue).
So the solution i'll be suggesting is meant to introduce some risk without changing the actual game mechanics, making the heavy reliance on missile batteries an high risk high reward setup (not to mention that it's very easy to implement).
My suggestion is: lower the missile ammo a single Battlemech can bring to the battle by a drastic reduction of the ammo/ton ratio.
What will happen once this suggestion goes live? Simply put, a player can either rely on heavy bursts, wrecking havoc for a couple of shots and risking to be a sitting duck (zombie) for the rest of the game, or he can actually balance out his Battlemech to be more durable in the game. So if you want to put an awesome total of 90 lrm that fire simultaneously from your mech, you will still be able to, but you'll have to face the consequences by running out of missiles.
This way it's up to the players to recognize a situation in which it's actually worth sacrificing most of your firepower to bring down a mech or two, or to spend it carefully in order to better support your team.
What you guys think of it?

[blinkin]

FerretWithASpork, on 12 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

How come whenever i create a thread complaining about LRMs I get flamed to hell but this one's not? >.>

the obnoxious minority has not found the game balance forum yet. don't worry they will show up soon most likely.

as far as LRM are concerned ECM is too much of a force on the field so i cannot accurately judge them because there are too few matches where i face them.

i know that i NEVER play my 2x LRM20 hunchback 4sp without a group of friends on. without decent reliable scouts LRM tend to be the most useless weapons. so if other players are like me then the LRM only show up as part of an organized group, so that could easily skew how players are seeing them.

streaks need a good hard nerfing and have since long before ECM showed up. i would actually suggest that they completely start over on that one. light mechs with streaks beat light mechs without them, light mechs with ECM beat streak mechs, light mechs with ECM and streak beat everything. regardless my energy build jenners take it up the butt.

i will start by saying i have always used a catapult c4 with 4x SRM6. i think SRM themselves are ok, but since repair and rearm was removed there is no penalty for face humping your way to a kill with the SRM catapults. it used to be an elite build that only a small few could tame, but now any moron can build one and rush in for a quick suicide bombing. since open beta i have seen vast numbers of "splatcats" but i have only ever seen one other pilot that actually understood the build. bring back repair and rearm similar to what it was and these problems will be gone just like they were in closed beta.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

LRMs are not overpowered, nor were they ever. They just seemed like it to players that didn't know how to play. You brawl out in the middle of the field with no usage of cover once so ever, and you get destroyed. It's like standing still, eating sniper shots, then saying snipers are OP. Most didn't even know how to slot an AMS. I slaughtered them everyday in my LRM Carriers; I know.

Streaks are still OP, but only when you have ECM or the enemy doesn't have one.

ECM is still OP as hell.

[blinkin]

Bluten, on 12 March 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Streaks are still OP, but only when you have ECM or the enemy doesn't have one.

only when you can't use other streaks against them?

i love how all light mechs have to carry streaks if they want to live. it is just wonderful how all of the light mechs that don't have missile slots are entirely obsolete and any missile slot that is not filled with streaks is a waste of space.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

blinkin, on 12 March 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

only when you can't use other streaks against them?

i love how all light mechs have to carry streaks if they want to live. it is just wonderful how all of the light mechs that don't have missile slots are entirely obsolete and any missile slot that is not filled with streaks is a waste of space.

It's a food chain. ECM+Streaks > Streaks > No Streaks. The winners are on the left, the target practice deadweights are on the right. Skill is irrelevant. Working as intended though, right Piranha?

[Tombstoner]

lrms have always been OP. its really not a situation of learning how to play. its like saying don't get shot. well duh.
its easly countered.... yes and as a consequence must hit exceptionally hard to be worth taking.
its the reasons behind the damage alterations that are FUBAR.

[blinkin]

Tombstoner, on 12 March 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

lrms have always been OP. its really not a situation of learning how to play. its like saying don't get shot. well duh.
its easly countered.... yes and as a consequence must hit exceptionally hard to be worth taking.
its the reasons behind the damage alterations that are FUBAR.

they spread their damage. you get warning as soon as they are fired. they have the slowest flight time of any weapon in the game. they do 0.0 damage if the target is within 180m. you MUST maintain lock while they are in flight or the will just hit the ground.

if you are using cover any at all it is very easy to dodge most missile volleys even in an assault mech. i dodge them in my atlas at a whopping 48 kph.

[VxSPEC]

There just needs to be more of a balance of each team having ECM rather than one team all ECM and the other team only having one or none. Makes it battles of the ECM'S so that no one on the team without the ECM can focus fire and additionally can not fire missles upon them. This makes the battle extremely displeasing and difficult for anyone to win under these types of conditions. The balance needs to be if one team has 3 ECM's then the other team needs to have 3 ECM's and if there is a premade all ECM then they need to be fighting a premade of 3 with ECM as well, if there is not one available then they should have to battle against a premade team of 4 or more to make up for the disadvantage of the inability of locking on for the sake of the team.

[Reax]

I think the Dmg of LRMs and SRMs are Good... They are good Balanced... BUT...
Why the **** an 6X SRM6 Cat can run 80 KP/h+?
To solf those Problems i Think its the best to make the Ammunition Heavyer...

They Build 36x SRMs ... is realy unbalanced.
I hate this Moments when i see an 4Guys Pulk of Splatercats... they just Running Arround and Killing everything in there Line.
PLS PLS Make this 36x SRMs Build unhappen.