32 replies to this topic

[Firefly]

Kyle Hawkins, on 11 June 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Ozy's suggestion isn't about laziness, it's about being thorough and wanting to be certain he's found a group that suits, rather than declaring allegiances on a whim.

Again, I have to point out - you learn more by reading a few paragraphs than a brief bullet-point bio. That is my entire point - do you want the quick and condensed version, or would you rather be armed with more facts than name, rank, and serial number (so to speak, proverbially)?

More to the point, which person do *I* as a leader want? The guy who quick-scoped my thread, or the guy who read enough to know that every question he's typing in a PM to me has been answered in the first two paragraphs?

Edited by Firefly, 11 June 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Again, I have to point out that Ozy didn't say take away the paragraphs, or replace them with the "bullet points", but as an addition to.

[Kyle Hawkins]

Hmm. Ok then, think of it like this...

Imagine it from the point of view of trying to select a component for your computer. Lets say the motherboard for example. There are hundreds of motherboard models and varieties available, and you need to be sure to get the correct socket type to match your CPU. It's an important thing and you don't want to just do it blind and hope for the best. Naturally you pull up a bunch of options and check their basic statistics first. You close the pages for all the boards that aren't of the kind you're looking for, and then compare the rest, reading and researching each further to learn more about them.

Now imagine you had to do the same, except if none of these stores listed any basic information for them, and you were forced to read hundreds of mixed reviews all written in different styles instead to get even the slightest clue of what your options were. It would be a daunting if not impossible task. You'd end up reading several dozen perhaps, but in the end you'd just have to fold and make a choice knowing there are probably a hundred other options out there that you don't have time to read through.

That's what this is about. A little bit of unified reference to help everyone make more informed choices. It's really not a big deal either. Though I'm afraid that this small flame war has probably scared off anyone that might have had anything constructive to say about the idea. ¬_¬

[Firefly]

Kyle Hawkins, on 11 June 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

Hmm. Ok then, think of it like this...

Imagine it from the point of view of trying to select a component for your computer. Lets say the motherboard for example. There are hundreds of motherboard models and varieties available, and you need to be sure to get the correct socket type to match your CPU. It's an important thing and you don't want to just do it blind and hope for the best. Naturally you pull up a bunch of options and check their basic statistics first. You close the pages for all the boards that aren't of the kind you're looking for, and then compare the rest, reading and researching each further to learn more about them.

Now imagine you had to do the same, except if none of these stores listed any basic information for them, and you were forced to read hundreds of mixed reviews all written in different styles instead to get even the slightest clue of what your options were. It would be a daunting if not impossible task. You'd end up reading several dozen perhaps, but in the end you'd just have to fold and make a choice knowing there are probably a hundred other options out there that you don't have time to read through.

I see what your point is, and it's well made. Unfortunately I am about two minutes past my intended departure time for an off-computer event. I will attempt to come back to this discussion later to address your points (not the points of people who I've essentially ignored).

[Curon Hifor]

Here are my thoughts on this:

I don't really like standardizing things when it comes to recruitment threads. I mean, if you want to ask those questions of people when they try to recruit you, OZY, then that's perfectly fine. I just don't like the idea of Mercenary companies having to follow this standard because 1) it will be seen as 'necessary' by the general public, 2) it will be seen as 'new and necessary' by those that run Mercenary companies, 3) it invalidates all other information posted on recruitment posts, and 4) it provides fast information without context.

STOP! I know this thread already covered the fact that Mercenary recruitment threads can have both the outline you posted in the first post and several paragraphs of fluff, but the problem is that once you post up the short-and-sweet information in your recruitment thread, people will generally ignore ALL other information except those questions you have listed. While this might not apply to 100% of the population, a lot of people will ignore the bulk of the thread's content if they have an easily-accessible Too Long; Didn't Read section. You might not feel that way about yourself, but a majority of people are like this. By even posting the short bulletin points, you're basically allowing people to skip all other information you've posted, even if the paragraphs of info go over Merc history, tactics, techniques, ethos, etc.

Also, if you did establish that Merc companies should do this sort of thing, then you inadvertently invalidate or hinder other Mercenary companies that did not get a chance to view this thread or had no knowledge of it. By establishing this standard, the populace as a whole will universally look for this kind of information right-off-the-bat, meaning those that don't will immediately get passed over, which isn't exactly fair, both to aspiring recruits and the Merc leaders.

The way these guidelines are set up, they provide fast and easy information without leaving a whole lot of room for context. I'm assuming this bulletin point style information system you posted only allows for one, MAYBE two, sentences, meaning you lose a lot of context of the how or why a particular mercenary company operates. Sure, it might be enough to know this is how unit A does things, but without an understanding of the why, it can almost seem asinine. There's a reason many Mercenary companies require registration and official recruitment threads, mostly because they've been swarmed with people that won't follow directions and waste time. By implementing registration and recruitment threads (especially those with very particular instructions), you circumvent a lot of "problem children," particularly those that do not follow directions or orders.

Yeah, there's a lot of mercenary units that are trying to recruit as many people as possible, and having to choose one can be rather difficult and time consuming, but in order to feel like you've made the right choice, you still have to do a lot of research. An accomplishment like that would be cheapened if you just looked at the 'quick' notes that a mercenary company listed, and from my personal experience, the less time needed to read the recruitment thread and satisfy entry requirements, the more chances there are for "undesirables" to spring up.

I hope I summarized my thoughts on this particular issue effectively for all parties involved. This is only my personal opinion, and if Mercenary companies end up using the above-posted method, then I'll see if it is worth it for my unit to follow such a standard.

[Chromoid]

I think in the end, the only thing that really matters is the merc unit itself: what are they looking for, and what do they expect? Because if every merc unit used the exact same recruitment protocol, then they wouldn't be very exciting would they?

My point is this: every unit has their own personalized recruitment thread filled with the things they think necessary for their recruits to know. If they want any player off the interwebs, then they'll do what it takes to achieve that goal. If they only want the best of the best of the best of the 1337, then they'll take steps to ensure that's what they get. In essence, the recruitment thread is a sample of the unit's personality, and it helps prospective recruits to get an idea of what to expect from them.
That's just my 2-cents on the matter.

Edited by Chromoid, 12 June 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[Flux Reversal]

This topic was created out of personal experience.

Let me give you a real life example from my experience: I found a team that slightly appealed to me, slightly because I need more than some wordy thread to win me over. After spending too much time on it I found that the team was a hardcore RP type clan drenched in MW cannon. And on top of that they did not have anywhere the amount of active individuals that the recruitment thread started here at MWO. Wasted time IMO. Had a few simple pieces of info been easily and readily available to me I would have not wasted any time at all because most of my questions would be immediately answered.

To all the detractors of my suggested format you oversimplify the process for which an individual finds a team. While some may take the first offer that comes along on the other end there are people like me who are completely thorough.

To all you that bump your recruitment threads daily put yourself in the shoes of someone like me. To do that, you must stop what you are doing right now, make note of the current time and then begin reading every current introductory post in every recruitment thread for the past two days. Then take note of the time when you are finished. Did it only take 5 minutes? LMAO! I think not!

If it were my teams thread buried among all the others here I would be mindful of the individual that actually has to read it and not so much with flamboyant wordy ego fluff. A recruitment thread is supposed to attract potential prospects. With that in mind and the fact that there are so many recruitment threads it seems the common sense thing to do is make a pitch that is short, sweet & informative.

You may think you thread is "FTW" or "1337" but it is actually a reflection of the mentality of the thread creator and by extension of the team they represent.

My intention was not that of standardization but of information. If this were a small community with a few recruitment threads it would be a different story.

[Threat Doc]

Fella's, trying to explain this to these people is like attempting to explain astrophysics to yet-in-ground potato's; pretty useless.

[0 Tharn 0]

I'd like to be in a Merc unit that uses the term 'lulz'

[Psycho Tick]

OZYM4NDI4S, on 13 June 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

You may think you thread is "FTW" or "1337" but it is actually a reflection of the mentality of the thread creator and by extension of the team they represent.

And? Isn't that the point? Represent who you are, exactly as you are?

If you aren't finding the information you need in the first few sentences, then scan the next few, and scan some more, and scan until you can't scan no more! You don't need to read in depth to find specific details. And you won't miss anything if you scan. How are we over simplifying the process? I went through this "process for which an individual finds a team." I know exactly what it was like. Oh, what have we here? Black Widow Company... sounds interesting let's read... oh, this is awesome! And so I signed up. Not because of details that are given through out. If it is really that hard for you, scan the thread for the details you need, then, if it tickles your fancy, read the rest. You don't have to thoroughly read every pixel to find these informations.

[Dihm]

OZYM4NDI4S, on 13 June 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

This topic was created out of personal experience.

Let me give you a real life example from my experience: I found a team that slightly appealed to me, slightly because I need more than some wordy thread to win me over. After spending too much time on it I found that the team was a hardcore RP type clan drenched in MW cannon. And on top of that they did not have anywhere the amount of active individuals that the recruitment thread started here at MWO. Wasted time IMO. Had a few simple pieces of info been easily and readily available to me I would have not wasted any time at all because most of my questions would be immediately answered.

To all the detractors of my suggested format you oversimplify the process for which an individual finds a team. While some may take the first offer that comes along on the other end there are people like me who are completely thorough.

To all you that bump your recruitment threads daily put yourself in the shoes of someone like me. To do that, you must stop what you are doing right now, make note of the current time and then begin reading every current introductory post in every recruitment thread for the past two days. Then take note of the time when you are finished. Did it only take 5 minutes? LMAO! I think not!

If it were my teams thread buried among all the others here I would be mindful of the individual that actually has to read it and not so much with flamboyant wordy ego fluff. A recruitment thread is supposed to attract potential prospects. With that in mind and the fact that there are so many recruitment threads it seems the common sense thing to do is make a pitch that is short, sweet & informative.

You may think you thread is "FTW" or "1337" but it is actually a reflection of the mentality of the thread creator and by extension of the team they represent.

My intention was not that of standardization but of information. If this were a small community with a few recruitment threads it would be a different story.

If people are doing nothing more than "bumping" threads, report them. That is a violation of the MWO forum policy.

Our thread's first post is exactly what you describe, an extension of what we, as a unit, represent. Obviously we're doing fairly well, as we just broke the 100 member mark for a game that hasn't been released yet. Everyone who has applied seems to have a pretty firm grasp of what we are about and represent without having a standardized info block for them to skim over. To each their own. I for one like the format I developed and didn't want to clutter it up by "jumping on the bandwagon" as I was asked to do.

[Bruiser]

WOW.......I see the mega-clans are starting BEFORE the game is even released.

Corps/clans seems the same to me.....just like all other MMO games, these "groups" will splinter and fall apart after 6-8 months, and thats BEFORE the clan stuff really starts, lol.

Anyway, no rules on a recruitment thread, but the bullet points would make it easy for some people to gather quick info, and then read the paragraphs if interested. Great idea...........

[Dihm]

Eh, 100 isn't mega anything, it isn't even a full Regiment.