3 replies to this topic

[Joe Mallad]

What I mean is... For example, if you want to take UAC5s or Gauss Rifles, they have a negative right?

The UAC5 Jams if used in prolonged engagements. And the Gauss has a high chance to take crit damage and explode due to its fragile state.

Now some can say that all ballistics an missile weapons already have a disadvantage because they need ammo and ammo explodes. I say no, it's the ammo that gives you the disadvantage, not its weapons.

With that in mind... I believe all weapons should have some sort of disadvantage quirk like the UAC weapons and Gauss rifle.

I believe there should be a massive heat penalty for taking anything over 3 PPCs. Sure some mech can take 4 if the load out is worked right but even after that, you're just pushing it to an extreme. So with mech like the Awesome that were meant to run 3 and maybe 4 PPCs, give them a quirk to be able to deal with the heat a bit better. But mech not traditionally meant to run PPCs in this manor, give them major heat disadvantages after 3 PPCs.

Some think LRM boating is over the top. I think its getting better and LRMs are almost about where they need to be. But LRM weaponry is probably the most rudimentary weapon still in the game... Next to some ballistics hat is. So I'm not saying it needs to happen all the time but for those that love to Spam LRMs all day or throw so many of them at you at once that their own heat jumps to the red line... Why not have a small % chance that LRM racks could jam up? Does not need to jam permanently, but long enough to throw you out of sync and just like UAC weapons, the jammed munitions are then expelled after the un-jam. The same could apply to SRMs too.

All other ballistic weapons can get lower reload times if you spam them and hit a higher heat threshold. If I'm running 4 AC2s and am sitting there rocking you with them as they are intended to do... Once I hit say 75% heat... They might start to stutter and not fire as fast. To the point that I might overheat them before ever overheating my mech. And at that point they too might jam. All ballistic type weapons do after all have a chance to jam in real life do they not?

The only weapon I'm still trying to think of a quirk for is laser weapons.

[Syllogy]

Uh....

The negatives that are in place actually discourage boating.

PPC Boats cannot keep up a continuous rate of fire, and have issues with anything in range.

Ballistics Boats are plagued with Ammunition problems.

LRM Boats suffer the same Short-Range issues as PPC Boats.

The list goes on and on...

Now, if you are talking about quirks in the same sense as how the different Variants have quirks (Some accelerate faster, others turn quicker, etc.) within the same Chassis, then I can see that.



They have already expressed a desire to add quirks to weapons within the same weapon-base type based on different manufacturers.

Examples:

Medium Laser - Manufacturer A:

• 5 Damage
  
• 4 Heat
  
• 275m Effective Range
  
• 3sec Cooldown
  
• 1sec Firing Time
  
• 1 Ton

Medium Laser - Manufacturer B:

• 4 Damage
  
• 4 Heat
  
• 350m Effective Range
  
• 3sec Cooldown
  
• 1sec Firing Time
  
• 1 Ton

Medium Laser - Manufacturer C:

• 6 Damage
  
• 7 Heat
  
• 350m Effective Range
  
• 3sec Cooldown
  
• 1.5sec Firing Time
  
• 1 Ton

Edited by Syllogy, 13 March 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

I'm sorry it doesn't seem like you've said much (no offense intended). Not all weapons need quirks, they need advantages and disadvantages. Currently, other than the Machine Gun (which is worthless overall), and the A/C-10 (which is a fine weapon, but probably a little too weak, very little), and the LBX-10 (I dunno if it's crits are worth it), the ballistics are extremely well balanced to themselves. Actually the UAC is, in my opinion, too strong. Not that it needs a heavy nerf, but I don't think that UACX weapons should be better for 1 ton and 1 slot, they should be the same, but the ability to double tab, and jam if you do. Right now, the UAC5, is 100% better than the A/C-5 (plus a ton and a slot, the ton is not hard to come up with, the slot is a little harder). We don't need better A/C-20s, that can also double tap. The better-ness of the the UAC5 to A/C-5 means that eh A/C-5 is actually pretty uncommon. I wrote this a while back in comparison to each other. Should still be pretty relevant.

ICEFANG13, on 24 December 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Chain fire, Backspace is the normal set-up, it turns on chain fire for the active control group.

Good ballistic weapons (in my opinions):

Machine Gun-At this time, completely worthless, not going to explain it, but its DPS is .4...

A/C-2, the big machine gun, it has low damage and high ROF, making it the best comparison, it is small compared to the others, and a lower tonnage (1 slot, 6 tons), it has good ammo/ton, but with all its power coming from firing speed, it can chew through it fairly well (I carry at least 2 tons of ammo per A/C-2, 75 per ton). It has a DPS of 4 and the longest range of anything in game maxing at 2160 (its optimum range is 720, not the highest, ER PPC is higher, but only doubles max range, and the TAG is higher). My personal favorite and very deadly (and heavy) with multiples.

A/C-5, lower ROF, more damage per shot, it has a lower (much lower, 1 slot to 4) slot effectiveness, so carrying multiples can be hard, and it has 30 per ton of ammo. It does have a much higher damage to weight than the A/C-2, since it weighs 8 tons. It also has the same heat per shot as the A/C-2, and fire's slower, so it doesn't have heat problems, I don't already have heat problems however, and I dislike how its in the middle for DPS and firepower.

Ultra A/C-5, is similar to the A/C-5, it weighs one more and has one more slot, it fires slightly faster, but also can be double tapped (you can fire during the cool down). While doing this, the weapon has 'like' a 25% chance to jam for a few seconds (I don't know the exact numbers right now). This is powerful by itself, but multiples can be harder to manage, I also avoid it, but I'd do the UAC over the A/C-5. It carries 25 ammo per ton.

The A/C-10 is similar to the A/C-2, it has the same DPS at four (lower ROF, but much higher damage), if you are a better shot, it would be better, since it does 5 times the damage a shot, but 3 times the heat, making it run much cooler, it has about 40% the range of the A/C-2, and twice as many tons (12) and seven slots. I would choose if you are a better shot with heat problems over the A/C-2. In comparison, it gets only 15 shots a ton, which I find really low, but also fires a fifth of the time, so its much better if you are accurate, but less powerful if you don't. Its higher slots make it harder to have 2 of in the same spot (not a problem for you though).

The A/C-20 scares me, I have never used it, and it takes up so many slots (so if you lose your armor in the area, it will be critical'd very quickly) that you cannot place it in your arms if you have a lower arm actuator. It has double the firepower, double the heat, half the ammo, and half the range of the A/C-10, so its pretty compatible, but it has a lower ROF to damage, so it has a DPS of 5, it also is really scary, people will focus it down, and if you get close to someone, you really can mess them up. Its bullets move slow, and with its low range, its not good for long range fighting.

The LB-X10 is worthless right now, A/C-10 is better.

The Gauss Rifle is very strong single shot, but lacks close range effectiveness. The weapon has low HP and, unlike other weapons (which do not blow up, but the ammo can), it can blow up (it's ammo can be destroyed, but it won't blow up). Its a sniping weapon, it does really good damage, but is so frail, if you carry it close range, and get it destroyed, and you don't have a C.A.S.E., you will probably die soon after. It's also low heat.

I hope that was helpful.

The LRMs, to each other, are well balanced as well. LRM-20s are the best per hardpoint, for Artemis, for heat, and slots but most mechs lack the 20 tubes to take full use of them, and have the longest reload time, and ties with the LRM-10 for weight. LRM-15s are less in every way. Hotter to damage, more slots and tons for damage, less time for reload, shorter cooldown. LRM-10s are 1.33 times hotter than a 20 per damage, but fire a second faster use up the same tons and less slots per damage. LRM-5s are the same as LRM-10, but poorer with Artemis, and have the lowest hardpoint effectiveness, as well as the shortest time for reload at .5 seconds less than LRM-10s. All LRMs that are less, also fire tighter (ie, 4LRM-5s will be in a much tighter spread than 1 LRM-20).

[StalaggtIKE]

I'm mostly with ICEFANG13 on this one. The weapons only need advantages and disadvantages. Quirks aren't necessary, in fact I prefer they stayed away from that train of thought all together. The only changes I would like to see with weapons are:

• AC10 - Merge AC10 with the LB-X10 and give it a toggle option that requires a brief cooldown in order to switch ammo. Of course if the user wants to fire either option they will require the proper ammo. IIRC, this is pretty much how the AC10 functioned in TT.
  
• I feel that LRM are at a pretty good point right now. The only problem I have is, the fact that the best way to use them is to invest heavily. I would like to see changes that ensure single salvos are still effective yet make boating detrimental. This would make LRM more accessible for any mech class and build, while making defending against them not as frustrating for less experienced players.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 13 March 2013 - 09:22 AM.