205 replies to this topic

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

It’s one thing to loose. It’s a whole other thing for the game to put you in matches for the sole purpose of making sure you lose. In what world is it fun to play a game where you think to yourself? "I won the last match this match the system is going to make sure I loose", and back and forth? Maybe not... I'll try this time.. Nope I was right the system is lopped sided and predictable.

I don’t know what’s worse. Winning 8-0 or losing 8-0 every other time. Either way it’s 50/50 and more predictable than cable "news" and about as fun as watching cement set.

What about an opt-in system for Elo or pre Elo? Keep low and high Elo players out of each other queue, like a range? Keep people with a far enough range away from each other. No one with a 100 (dont know the real elo range just numbers to make a point) Elo should ever be put in a match with someone with 1300 Elo. Even if both sides have someone with 1300, the guy with 100 may be the one to run into the 1300 and die, instead of the 2 1300 meeting.


In the end a system that matches on a 50/50 win loss ratio AND puts high and low Elo players together is skewed and frankly has no place in a game such as this. No matter how you try and justify it.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 25 March 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Sprouticus, on 25 March 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

People in our unit are resorting to alt-F4 if the searching circle spins for more than 5-10 seconds. Because the longer you have to wait the greater the chance of being put in a group of underhivers.

I was thinking of the same thing.

PugStomping is not the point : where is the pugstomping when you expect to play with teammates matching your skills and against oppenents matching your skills as the ELO system should work ???

Before the patch on the solo waiting time, the ELO system was fine. But then PGI try to resolve this problem and instead totally biased the ELO system by thinking that mixing high Elo and low Elo in a team will equivalent to a team of average Elo which is not.

[Nightfire]

Zeh, on 14 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

BUMP. I'd like to at least get something useful out of the 3+ threads on this. I know several of you would love to bring up your high win%, so anyone want to respond? Please?

Just give your win rate, and whether or not you're seeing this problem of being matched up with severely underperforming players in what seems like an attempt to balance teams.

I'll tell you I've experienced this often enough for it to affect my enjoyment of the game.
Win/Loss is not as high as some @ 2.5:1 or 74%

I'll give the devs something more important though. I invite the devs to look at my playing habits, before Elo, during Elo Seeding and since. You will note that I played A LOT before Elo and during seeding. After the Elo rated MM kicked in you'll notice a decline in my played hours. Slowly at first and then more rapidly.

I'll give you the short version, bringing my teams average Elo down by asking my 4 man to carry people gets old very quickly! I'm tired of it! The games are simply not fun!

I'll also ask the Devs to note how much I've spent. You'll note I'm a "conversion", I pay. I'm not a "peacock" but rather a competitive player. I'm the type that buys mech bays to keep every mech I've ever bought. I'm the type that bought the Wang and would by more hero mechs should the price drop a little. I'm the type that would consider the convenience of consumables and even paying MC for clan weapons.

You'll note I purchased the Legendary pack early! You'll note that I bought more MC and purchased more premium time even though I have yet to activate my Founders premium. You'll note that, dubious of the Elo upcoming implementation, I ceased spending.

I ceased spending and now am ceasing to play. This is the business model you are operating, I would consider myself the type of customer you would prefer to retain. You would know that most forum posters are also full of wind, vitriol and false bravado. You have the stats to know the difference between bluster and reality and I know you do. As such I invite the devs to look at mine.

I will continue to look back here to see if there are changes to the matchmaker but until such time, I've rediscovered Natural Selection 2!

Kell Draygo, on 14 March 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Pugstompers reap what they sow. The three or four man farmed like crazy for stats and c-bills. Now there is some sort of matchmaking in place, they get stomped. Very little sympathy here. A solution is to find more people to fill out your team.

You sir, are a Troll! You know not of which you speak and are best served by returning beneath the bridge from whence thou came!

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Nightfire, on 25 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'll tell you I've experienced this often enough for it to affect my enjoyment of the game.
Win/Loss is not as high as some @ 2.5:1 or 74%

I'll give the devs something more important though. I invite the devs to look at my playing habits, before Elo, during Elo Seeding and since. You will note that I played A LOT before Elo and during seeding. After the Elo rated MM kicked in you'll notice a decline in my played hours. Slowly at first and then more rapidly.

I'll give you the short version, bringing my teams average Elo down by asking my 4 man to carry people gets old very quickly! I'm tired of it! The games are simply not fun!

I'll also ask the Devs to note how much I've spent. You'll note I'm a "conversion", I pay. I'm not a "peacock" but rather a competitive player. I'm the type that buys mech bays to keep every mech I've ever bought. I'm the type that bought the Wang and would by more hero mechs should the price drop a little. I'm the type that would consider the convenience of consumables and even paying MC for clan weapons.

You'll note I purchased the Legendary pack early! You'll note that I bought more MC and purchased more premium time even though I have yet to activate my Founders premium. You'll note that, dubious of the Elo upcoming implementation, I ceased spending.

I ceased spending and now am ceasing to play. This is the business model you are operating, I would consider myself the type of customer you would prefer to retain. You would know that most forum posters are also full of wind, vitriol and false bravado. You have the stats to know the difference between bluster and reality and I know you do. As such I invite the devs to look at mine.

I will continue to look back here to see if there are changes to the matchmaker but until such time, I've rediscovered Natural Selection 2!

100% spot on IMO.
If 2 people from the opposite sides of the spectrum agree, something is wrong.
I am pretty sure I have a low ELO. I only pug. I have NEVER dropped in a premade. I have not spent a penny on this game and wont because of the Elo, and frankly I don’t know how long this game will last. I used to play SWG for a LONG time (“fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.") I had more fun before the Elo win or lose.
No offence, I don’t want to be grouped with you or against your premade no more than you want me in your group, it’s simply not fun for me ether, even if I am on your team and we win.
I will continue to lurk on the forums hoping for a rollback/change/better matchmaking system. But I’m not playing anymore and I really want to. Back to dcuo.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 25 March 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[Teralitha]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 25 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

100% spot on IMO.
If 2 people from the opposite sides of the spectrum agree, something is wrong.
I am pretty sure I have a low ELO. I only pug. I have NEVER dropped in a premade. I have not spent a penny on this game and wont because of the Elo, and frankly I don’t know how long this game will last. I used to play SWG for a LONG time (“fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.") I had more fun before the Elo win or lose.
No offence, I don’t want to be grouped with you or against your premade no more than you want me in your group, it’s simply not fun for me ether, even if I am on your team and we win.
I will continue to lurk on the forums hoping for a rollback/change/better matchmaking system. But I’m not playing anymore and I really want to. Back to dcuo.

Dont you derps realize ELO was created to give your a more even playing field? Now you are complaining because you cant handle it. You dont even realize that virtually nothing has changed in your actual match experience. This is all just psychological. First, you blamed the lack of a matchaker for your horrible skill and losses. But now, ELO comes in, and now you have to face your equal in every single game instead of randomly... and... OMG its no longer fun because its HARD TO WIN NOW.

Sorry but this is a skill based game. It cant be anything else by design. If you are not able to handle it, you can leave. And if by your leaving this game fails, then the devs have failed.

But its not impossible to make you happy. The devs could split the player base between those that want ELO and those that want no matchmaking feature at all. A seperate queue for both groups. But you know hat? Even if they did that, you still wouldnt be happy because every time you lose, you want to blame something. The problem isnt the game... its you.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Teralitha aka a DOLT, on 25 March 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I never complained about the match making system before Elo. You must have missed where i wrote I had more fun be4 the elo. Probably because you just wanted to call names and read your post over and over to feel special like a big boy.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 25 March 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Screech]

Or perhaps you aren't as good as you thought you were.

Nah couldn't be that... your mom says your special.

[Teralitha]

Winning is awesome, and losing flatout sucks. The more you win, the more fun your having. The more you lose, the more it sucks. You must be losing more since ELO came in since you are having less fun. Well... you can blame ELO for that, but ELO isnt the problem. Its still you.

[Franchi]

My win rate is now stable at 3.80-3.85 Either ELo is a failure or I am part of the MWO master race.

I notice the exact thing the OP is talking about, we often get saddled with 4 people in atrocious builds who can't hit the broad side of a barn with an LBX10.

Elo does work to a certain extent, almost every game we get has a four man on the other team, and its not uncommon to end up with four four mans in a match, but it does seem to put us in games simply to make us lose; especially the TROLOLOL matches on river city and forest colony where we get 1 assault versus 5 or the ones on alpine conquest with 1 light versus 4. I really don't like that, whats more depressing is that my wins may simply be me being put into a game where Elo wants me to win.

Edited by Franchi, 25 March 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Any sort of matchmaking system is going to have winners and losers. That just is what it is. Admittedly I really like Elo, the quality of my games has gone up drastically. The pugs I play with are normally phenomenal. While I rarely had problems with premades before now it's more of an issue - not because I'm playing against them but the ones who drop on my team and don't communicate but just run off and do their own thing without speaking to the team. Or, even worse, on one occasion just show up, insult people, leg a teammate and generally act like jackasses. Premade in a merc group in fact.

The biggest thing I've learned is that premades/clans are absolutely NOT better players than pugs. At higher Elo the pugs are phenomenal - good team players, they know how to win a match and stick together. It's some of the premades that screw us over.

If you're in some uber-level Elo, then play more.

My magic trick for loving the new Elo system? Just played my 895th match since the new tracking system came in. I'm down to a 1.18 win/loss rate now and my KDR has slowly dropped. I play with and against, consistently, some awesome people. My Elo score is pretty well established, even on games with a long delay to find matches. I wonder how many matches some of these people with complaints have played. If you're winning tons or losing tons the problem has more to do with you still being out of Elo balance.

To avoid wide swings in Elo, changes take a lot of games. A LOT. Before, prior to 300 or 400 matches, I saw big swings. Now though I'm settled pretty well into my skill range and movement up or down is going to take a lot of wins/losses.

Also, the higher your Elo the more the win/loss rate swings. See, losing to people way better than you or matches you couldn't win? Almost no drop in Elo. Beating people way beneath your skill? Almost no gain. Beating someone way better than you/winning against big odds? Big gain. Losing to n00bz? Big loss.

It's not just 50/50. If you're dropping in a team and winning about 75% then you're way under your Elo. It'll take, however, a couple of hundred or more matches to put you in place, possibly more.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Screech, on 25 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Nah couldn't be that... your mom says your special.

Its funny you say this and support this 50/50 every one is equally special Elo system. LMFAO!

Teralitha, on 25 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Winning is awesome, and losing flatout sucks. The more you win, the more fun your having. The more you lose, the more it sucks. You must be losing more since ELO came in since you are having less fun. Well... you can blame ELO for that, but ELO isnt the problem. Its still you.

You all have selective reading AND can’t read well.

It’s one thing to loose. It’s a whole other thing for the game to put you in matches for the sole purpose of making sure you lose.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 25 March 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Teralitha]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 25 March 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

You all have selective reading AND can’t read well.

No, we can read just fine. We just dont believe you.

[FrDrake]

@Nightfire - the goal of an Elo system is to place you in matches where you have a 50/50 chance of winning. You're claiming that your win rate of 75% isn't high enough for you.

The rest of your arguments are moot because you just don't like a challenge and would prefer to pubstomp all day.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Teralitha, on 25 March 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

No, we can read just fine. We just dont believe you.

neat, we are actully talking about Elo. not if you beleve me or not. Next!

[SgtKinCaiD]

FrDrake, on 25 March 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

The rest of your arguments are moot because you just don't like a challenge and would prefer to pubstomp all day.

Then i must ask again : where is the pugstomping when you expect to play with teammates matching your skills and against opponents matching your skills like the ELO system should work ? Because that's all I'm asking.

Edited by SgtKinCaiD, 25 March 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[FrDrake]

SgtKinCaiD, on 25 March 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Then i must ask again : where is the pugstomping when you expect to play with teammates matching your skills and against opponents matching your skills like the ELO system should work ? Because that's all I'm asking.

Elo matches you with like skilled players only as a first step. The underlying goal of Elo is to make a game that it believes either side has an even chance of winning. I see now where you guys are getting confused, that's the crux of the difference of opinions.

The average Elo of the match is 1500. 4man-elite-dudes are 2000 a piece, that means the other 4 are going to be 1000. That's how the process works if they can't find 8 2000 Elo guys to put you up against. Carry the pugs if you have to, someone with a 76% win rate should be able to.

[Franchi]

FrDrake, on 25 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Elo matches you with like skilled players only as a first step. The underlying goal of Elo is to make a game that it believes either side has an even chance of winning. I see now where you guys are getting confused, that's the crux of the difference of opinions.

The average Elo of the match is 1500. 4man-elite-dudes are 2000 a piece, that means the other 4 are going to be 1000. That's how the process works if they can't find 8 2000 Elo guys to put you up against. Carry the pugs if you have to, someone with a 76% win rate should be able to.

Elo may think its giving us balanced games but in practice about 60% are 8-0 or 0-8 8-2 or some such, another 30% turn into cap races and the remaining 10% are good games.

Edited by Franchi, 25 March 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[FrDrake]

Franchi, on 25 March 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Elo may think its giving us balanced games but in practice about 60% are 8-0 or 0-8 8-2 or some such, another 30% turn into cap races and the remaining 10% are good games.

So you admit there are 30% of games that would be more fun if you could play better

[SgtKinCaiD]

FrDrake, on 25 March 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Elo matches you with like skilled players only as a first step. The underlying goal of Elo is to make a game that it believes either side has an even chance of winning. I see now where you guys are getting confused, that's the crux of the difference of opinions.

The average Elo of the match is 1500. 4man-elite-dudes are 2000 a piece, that means the other 4 are going to be 1000. That's how the process works if they can't find 8 2000 Elo guys to put you up against. Carry the pugs if you have to, someone with a 76% win rate should be able to.

And that's were it failed. Mixing high-elo and low-elo players doesn't add up.

And I'm not here to explain why sticking together is important, why you shouldn't run behind a scout when you are an assault, why LRM at point blank range don't do any damage, why their AC-10 is not jamming, it's out of ammo damnit !
And even if I wanted, what can I do ? Tell them ? Guess what ? They don't care. What option do I have left then ? Shoot them ? Guide them like sheepdog ? I'm not here to babysit.

[FrDrake]

The system knows what their contributions will be, and balances it for the above average contributions your 4 man will make. Now I know it will be frustrating to have to spectate that last guy who loses a duel to someone with a red crit CT, but you can't win them all. Anyone who tells you differently is lying or trying to sell you something.