43 replies to this topic

[Valore]

For all those who aren't aware, it seems that SRMs fired enmasse in one shot have been broken since the last patch. They do significantly reduced damage. Feel free to test this yourself by chain firing vs alpha striking them.

So if you're still complaining about splatcats since the last patch, especially about being one shot by them in a heavier mech, here's where you realise it was probably you

[One Medic Army]

Have you any screenshots/videos to confirm a SRM damage bug due to chain-fire vs mass fire?
First I've heard of it.

[Valore]

Its easily noticable.

Take an A1.

Training grounds, alpha the atlas.

Exit, rejoin training grounds.

Chain fire.

You'll notice the damage indicators are significantly different.

[One Medic Army]

That would require that I own an A1.
Have you confirmed in a live game? The devs have said that training grounds do not register damage correctly.

[von Pilsner]

And here is the dev post from Lead Designer Paul Inouye that says that SRMs and SSRMs are doing way too much damage...

Quote

Interesting and very thorough testing by the OP and many kudos for the in-depth write-up.
This problem has 2 levels.

First is that Testing Grounds has quite a few issues when reporting damage and the numbers you're seeing are inflated quite a bit (almost double). We will be addressing this bug and others as Testing Grounds matures over time.

Second, this does NOT eliminate the findings that S-SRMs AND SRMs are doing more damage than intended. This is not due to some top secret, behind your back weapon balancing. It has to do with splash damage, how it was first implemented and the new smaller Mechs coming out.



Here is one of the scenarios described and I've turned on the debug tools to let us see exactly what is going on in terms of hits and damage being done.

The Raven 3L has just fired 1 volley of 2 x S-SRM2 at the Commando 1B. As you can see, the amount of damage done to the Commando does not make sense. There is a total of 51.5 armor being stripped off the Commando. We've been able to reproduce this repeatedly and we're getting an average damage of 12.9 per missile. Quite a bit higher than the intended 2.5 damage per missile plus splash damage.

So what has happened to cause this? Smaller Mechs and more complex geometry than what was available when the splash damage system first went into the game. When SRM splash damage went into the game, there were a total of 4 Mechs available to the playerbase. The Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult and the Atlas. These 4 Mechs have very unique targeting silhouettes and were used to calculate the radius of splash damage per missile. Now what has happened is that the splash damage across smaller Mechs or Mechs with more complex/tighter component positioning are getting hit with more splash damage than intended.

In the image below, you can see how much overlap the damage done to the Commando has and how that it is taking significantly more splash damage than it should.



We are looking at the tuning for these hit locations/splash damage and will update as soon as possible.

Wonder who is correct....?

[One Medic Army]

von Pilsner, on 15 March 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

And here is the dev post from Lead Designer Paul Inouye that says that SRMs and SSRMs are doing way too much damage...

Wonder who is correct....?

If there is a bug with chain-fire vs mass-fire for SRMs it's not mutually exclusive with the known splash damage issues.
It might help explain why this didn't come up sooner.

[von Pilsner]

One Medic Army, on 15 March 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

If there is a bug with chain-fire vs mass-fire for SRMs it's not mutually exclusive with the known splash damage issues.
It might help explain why this didn't come up sooner.

The first post in that mega thread mentions:

Quote

Based on my tests, conventional SRMs deal damage in the same way as Streak SRMs, except that you have more control over the impact point at close range. If, in your Splat Cat, you alpha an Atlas in the CT at about 20 m range, you will do roughly 160 damage (4.3 damage/missile), not 90, as is typically believed.

He tested the alpha as well. I suppose the devs will be looking into SRM and SSRM damage soon so any issues should get fixed...

Edited by von Pilsner, 15 March 2013 - 01:48 AM.

[Valore]

One Medic Army, on 15 March 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

That would require that I own an A1.
Have you confirmed in a live game? The devs have said that training grounds do not register damage correctly.

Surely you have something with a few missile ports

Centurion? DDC? Any other Cat variant? Awesome?

[GODzillaGSPB]

Valore, on 15 March 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

For all those who aren't aware, it seems that SRMs fired enmasse in one shot have been broken since the last patch. They do significantly reduced damage. Feel free to test this yourself by chain firing vs alpha striking them.

So if you're still complaining about splatcats since the last patch, especially about being one shot by them in a heavier mech, here's where you realise it was probably you

Yeah, I totally agree. If a single volley still one-shots me through the fully intact 50-ish armor of my medium mech that could not outrun the faster splatcat, it was probably me. Me, beeing blown up. That's what you meant. Right? Mhm...

[One Medic Army]

Valore, on 15 March 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

Surely you have something with a few missile ports

Centurion? DDC? Any other Cat variant? Awesome?

I suppose I could use my Cent-A or a Stalker.
Most of my mechs have 2 missile hardpoints at most.
(I even listed them in my sig)

Edited by One Medic Army, 15 March 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[Phaesphoros]

I cannot confirm this, tested with STK-5M (5 SRM6) and CTPLT-C4 (4 ASRM6); one alpha from 50 m to roughly center of mass.
STK-5M one alpha: 82 % (chain fire 83 %)
CTPLT-C4 one alpha: 86 % (chain fire: 86 %)

AS7-D total health 924; 82 % = 758; 86 % = 795
5*SRM6 dmg: 166 (expected 75) -> SRM6 effectively has 33 dmg
4*ASRM6 dmg: 129 (expected 60) -> ASRM6 effectively has 32 dmg

Damage distribution was slightly different, but 1) this is to be expected 2) vertical angle varies between different maps.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Valore, on 15 March 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

Surely you have something with a few missile ports

Centurion? DDC? Any other Cat variant? Awesome?

well he's a founder so Im betting he has a cat...

[John MatriX82]

von Pilsner, on 15 March 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

Wonder who is correct....?

I guess the OP is mentioning huge problems in SRM hit-detection. I've myself experienced this, either you blow up mechs one shot or you land a solid alpha with 3 ASRM6 from point blank to a static, maybe even shut down target and there's no hit registration at ALL.

It looks like missiles in general really need serious reworking, since either they do huge damages or nothing is registered. Happens also with PPC/ER PPCs, often the hits aren't even detected.

[sycocys]

I just laugh because many people still use the tactic of staring into my cat's eyes and running directly at me, then throw a huge fit in global after they get shredded for using a poor tactic.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

I knew the training ground was messed up because Mechs die at least 2x as fast as normal. It's as if they don't have any armor at all. It feels like you're just hitting internals right from the start; although the HUD figure colors say otherwise.

[Major Derps]

sycocys, on 15 March 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

I just laugh because many people still use the tactic of staring into my cat's eyes and running directly at me, then throw a huge fit in global after they get shredded for using a poor tactic.

The most frustrating thing to watch when pugging...Every time I notice a splatcat, I call it out, usually along the lines of; 'try keep that splatcat at range until it's ears are gone'...only to watch half of the friendlies almost immediately face hug the bloody thing...

[TexAce]

Phaesphoros, on 15 March 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

I cannot confirm this, tested with STK-5M (5 SRM6) and CTPLT-C4 (4 ASRM6); one alpha from 50 m to roughly center of mass.
STK-5M one alpha: 82 % (chain fire 83 %)
CTPLT-C4 one alpha: 86 % (chain fire: 86 %)

AS7-D total health 924; 82 % = 758; 86 % = 795
5*SRM6 dmg: 166 (expected 75) -> SRM6 effectively has 33 dmg
4*ASRM6 dmg: 129 (expected 60) -> ASRM6 effectively has 32 dmg

Damage distribution was slightly different, but 1) this is to be expected 2) vertical angle varies between different maps.

Paul said that damage is doubled in testing grounds so your recorded damage is just slightly higher.

Now don't do the test on an Atlas, do it against a commando or spider and then see what will happen.
It should not be just doubled (which would be ok) but trippled or up to 5-7 times as high. That's the bug everyone is talking about.

Edited by TexAss, 15 March 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Double damage means double higher, not slightly. But they need to just turn it down to normal.

[Nightcrept]

From what they mentioned in a dev post throntor found from a few weeks ago they knew something was up and were doing something with changing how the damage was calculated on the coms leg parts.

They seem to like the in game effect but the mechanic used to get there is all messed up. They can't even figure out how they get the results they do...lol

[Ghogiel]

Valore, on 15 March 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

For all those who aren't aware, it seems that SRMs fired enmasse in one shot have been broken since the last patch. They do significantly reduced damage. Feel free to test this yourself by chain firing vs alpha striking them.

So if you're still complaining about splatcats since the last patch, especially about being one shot by them in a heavier mech, here's where you realise it was probably you

I'm sure this bug is older than the last patch. One of the devs mentioned a bug when alphaing with SRMs what seems like weeks ago now.