101 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

Eddy Hawkins, on 16 March 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

seeing as the SRM topic was started less than three days ago, i think PGI is moving rather quickly. they are most likley doing other things then just removing splash, mabye tuning missle damage? reguardless, my point is that they are moving quickly to the attention of the community.

i cant recall other games where devs responded as fast, usaly things like this take months to be addressed, and we got two weeks. now i know they are not fixing it, just removing it, but it is somthing.

PGI takes our issues seriously, to me at least. they probly all sit around and talk about "what are the fourms complaning about and how can we fix it?" Lag shield - PUG stomps - LRMs - ECM, all things that we have b*tched about and they have fixed or are trying to fix.

try to give them some credit and besides, this game is still in beta and as testers this what we are supost to be going throu, finding issues before the game goes live.

ECM+streaks+speed+target decay mod+ 360 degree targeting mod has been broken for quite some time now, and their moves to address it are glacial, at best.

The only reason they're moving fast *rather slowly, actually* to fix the missile splash issue is because they're asking for real money with every weekend sale, and newer players are the target market for these sales. Newer players are also the people likely to eat LRMs more than others.

I've already spent $150 on this game. I've bought the hero mechs I wanted, I've got 31 mech bays, and a couple of cool colors and camo patterns for chassis that I enjoy. The weekend sales fail to move me at all. I'm not the target audience for them.

Edited by Training Instructor, 16 March 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Hayashi, on 16 March 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

Fix is incoming in April apparently. Which will be too late for my record on the Commandos I'm piloting atm... >.>

WHAT??? i thought they´ll hotfix this with the next patch?

3more weeks? time for a break i guess... especially for a heavy slow mech that can´t either get close to the 5XLRM boat nor into cover because it dies from 1-2 volleys its just pure pain right now... only alternative: not participating in the fights and stay unseen... i am one of the persons ALWAYS defending LRM´s because i had no issues dealing with them..but right now it´s just pure horror.

i could take it 1 week with teeth gnashing in good believe this will be fixed fast...but another 2 weeks at least? hardly, honestly...

[Eddy Hawkins]

Training Instructor, on 16 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

ECM+streaks+speed+target decay mod+ 360 degree targeting mod has been broken for quite some time now, and their moves to address it are glacial, at best.

The only reason they're moving fast *rather slowly, actually* to fix the missile splash issue is because they're asking for real money with every weekend sale, and newer players are the target market for these sales. Newer players are also the people likely to eat LRMs more than others.

I've already spent $150 on this game. I've bought the hero mechs I wanted, I've got 31 mech bays, and a couple of cool colors and camo patterns for chassis that I enjoy. The weekend sales fail to move me at all. I'm not the target audience for them.

have you ever worked in a developement cycle and do you have any idea how long it takes to rewrite code? One can not simply remove splash in a "hotfix" because you dont know what removing that code might do to the game. It might cause other uninteded bugs to come about. Keep in mind that MWO is still in beta, and issues such as these happen during beta testing and do not forget that you clicked that check box stating that you understood this point when you signed on for open beta. it seems that WoW has spoiled players and some now expect every issue to be fixed in a week. Back in 2004 when WoW first came out, it used to take months for major issues to be resolved and that was when the game was live.

this splash is effecting SRMs, SSRMs and LRMs and it seems to me that PGI HAS been trying to balance the issue for months. i.e changing missle spread and damage for example, but whatever they did just didnt seem to fix it. i ask you, would Raven 3Ls seem as OP as they are now if the SSRMs they shot did 10 damage insted of 30 per volly? or splatcats that did 90 alpha insted of nearly 300? this splash issue is effecting more in the game than just LRMs, and the devs are taking action in the patch after next (tus patch was already done when the topic was first posted)

within 12hrs we had a dev response, within 24 we had them conferming the results in their own testing and a post that action would be taken, in my experance that is extremly fast.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Immelmann, on 16 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

LRMS devestating any mech. CT is now about the only thing EVER hit. life expectancy of any mech is 10 seconds in any encounter. scores are 8-0; 7-1; etc. it sure would be nice to play a round where the game actually lasts longer than 3 minutes.

game has degraded to closed beta LRMboating and masses grouped weapons that have NO spread but just punch a hole in one specific point, CT.

no point in playing for fun anymore, it is just a frustration generating machine.

1.) dont stand in the open
2.) stay by the ECM mech
3.) use cover and hug the terrain
4.) if you see "WARNING INCOMING MISSILES" take cover
5.) if you dont want to have to give effort to play then yeah dunno what to tell you.

[NRP]

It's easy to say all of that L2P crap, but often times it isn't quite so easy to do in practice.

[Ph30nix]

Immelmann, on 16 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

LRMS devestating any mech. CT is now about the only thing EVER hit. life expectancy of any mech is 10 seconds in any encounter. scores are 8-0; 7-1; etc. it sure would be nice to play a round where the game actually lasts longer than 3 minutes.

game has degraded to closed beta LRMboating and masses grouped weapons that have NO spread but just punch a hole in one specific point, CT.

no point in playing for fun anymore, it is just a frustration generating machine.

all i here is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
http://www.youtube.c...e&v=zyltK6pmJGg

LRM's arent the problem learn to play, work with your PUG, if your pug doesnt work together your going to lose so again LRM's arent the problem

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

NRP, on 17 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's easy to say all of that L2P crap, but often times it isn't quite so easy to do in practice.

If you dont want to learn, dont play.
Damn sure dont QQ about things you refuse to learn

[armyof1]

Facepalm at guys sticking with L2P when there is obvious problems with missiles doing way more damage than intended, and recently the LRMS even getting a tighter formation with Artemis to basically focus a huge majority of the damage done on the CT. I suggest we give LRMs a damage buff of 10 damage per missile, and everyone think that is wrong just need to L2P.

[NRP]

[REDACTED] I never said I refuse to learn. I said it's a gross over simplification to just parrot the tired "learn to play" mantra. In the heat of battle, it's not always easy or even possible to do all those talking points you listed, especially in a solo PUG environment.

Edited by Viterbi, 17 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.
Removed directed statement

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

armyof1, on 17 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Facepalm at guys sticking with L2P when there is obvious problems with missiles doing way more damage than intended, and recently the LRMS even getting a tighter formation with Artemis to basically focus a huge majority of the damage done on the CT. I suggest we give LRMs a damage buff of 10 damage per missile, and everyone think that is wrong just need to L2P.

facepalm at guys who think this isnt a game that you should have to learn to play. Or that you should have to learn to counter LRMs or weapons in general with in game tactics when we have visual AND auditory warnings telling you theyre coming. If you ignore those its YOUR BAD for dying.
What should there be a button when missiles are in flight that you press if youre willing to acknowlege they will hit you and if you dont hit that they all explode mid air?

And Im not talking FIXING them, the splash damage needs to be fixed

NRP, on 17 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Don't be a moron, Buddah. I never said I refuse to learn. I said it's a gross over simplification to just parrot the tired "learn to play" mantra. In the heat of battle, it's not always easy or even possible to do all those talking points you listed, especially in a solo PUG environment.

funny, I ONLY play solo PUG and I dont have the issues youre having. Maybe beause IVE learned - to - play?
Or learned to counter LRMs with in game means?
nah, cant be that could it?

[armyof1]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 March 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

facepalm at guys who think this isnt a game that you should have to learn to play. Or that you should have to learn to counter LRMs or weapons in general with in game tactics when we have visual AND auditory warnings telling you theyre coming. If you ignore those its YOUR BAD for dying.
What should there be a button when missiles are in flight that you press if youre willing to acknowlege they will hit you and if you dont hit that they all explode mid air?

And Im not talking FIXING them, the splash damage needs to be fixed

I guess we're playing different games, are you always doing 1 on 1 duels in your games? Or are there sometimes like you know another opponent engaging you and forcing you to move and LRMboats can take advantage of it and shower you with missiles that 90% hit your CT and core you like you're made of paper? There's huge problems with missiles right now which becomes more apparent the more missiles are fired at you, as in LRMboats. And right now there is a bug with damage, and that together with CT focusing missiles it all adds up to a huge mess. So it might be time to not just lean on the L2P argument for once and acknowledge there might actually be a problem with the game sometimes.

Edited by armyof1, 17 March 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

armyof1, on 17 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

I guess we're playing different games, are you doing 1 on 1 duels in your games? Or are there sometimes like you know another opponent engaging you and forcing you to move and LRMboats can take advantage of it and shower you with missiles that 90% hit your CT and core you like you're made of paper? There's huge problems with missiles right now which becomes more apparent the more missiles are fired at you, as in LRMboats. And right now there is a bug with damage, and that together with CT focusing missiles it all adds up to a huge mess. So it might be time to not just lean on the L2P argument for once and acknowledge there might actually be a problem with the game sometimes.

When missiles come at me, before they hit I get behind a hill. Theres one suggestion.
The only time I ever really die from LRMs (MIND YOU I almost always play my slow *** founder Atlas so we're not talking like Im in a Jenner or Ravel 3l here) is if Im stupid and get in a position where I get them into my back. Like the last time I remember, on frozen city, there was a guy in a stalker who got behind me, killed the hell out of me, then said "So, Buddah, LRMs arent OP huh?"
Which I thought was pretty funny so I replied, "Nope, especially when I position myself like a dumbass and give you my back to shoot at."
And you failed to read the part where I SAID:

Quote

And Im not talking FIXING them, the splash damage needs to be fixed

cause yes, I already SAID they need to fix the splash damage.

But yeah, guess we are playing two different games. Im playing the one where I had to figure out how to counter those things and I did. Youre playing the one where you dont want to and so theyre ruining your game, so you come here and QQ

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 March 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[armyof1]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

When missiles come at me, before they hit I get behind a hill. Theres one suggestion.
The only time I ever really die from LRMs (MIND YOU I almost always play my slow *** founder Atlas so we're not talking like Im in a Jenner or Ravel 3l here) is if Im stupid and get in a position where I get them into my back. Like the last time I remember, on frozen city, there was a guy in a stalker who got behind me, killed the hell out of me, then said "So, Buddah, LRMs arent OP huh?"
Which I thought was pretty funny so I replied, "Nope, especially when I position myself like a dumbass and give you my back to shoot at."
And you failed to read the part where I SAID:

cause yes, I already SAID they need to fix the splash damage.

But yeah, guess we are playing two different games. Im playing the one where I had to figure out how to counter those things and I did. Youre playing the one where you dont want to and so theyre ruining your game, so you come here and QQ

Well I see you still refuse to acknowledge there are so many situations where you're not free to just seek cover or be able to stay behind cover that is not only due to something you did out of stupidity. The problem is anytime you are out of cover now, you get cored so quick because of the way the missiles converge to your CT and often dismiss if your torso twist and get your arm in between the missile shower and CT. And I don't know what it is with some MWO players, it's like they are too macho to realise when some game mechanics are faulty and any thoughts and complaints about it is simply just crying and you just need to learn to play. I mean I'm sure PGI are thankful for that, since they'd never need to balance anything if everyone thought like that because it's always something wrong with the player, never with the game.

Edited by armyof1, 17 March 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

Immelmann, on 16 March 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

LRMS devestating any mech. CT is now about the only thing EVER hit. life expectancy of any mech is 10 seconds in any encounter. scores are 8-0; 7-1; etc. it sure would be nice to play a round where the game actually lasts longer than 3 minutes.

game has degraded to closed beta LRMboating and masses grouped weapons that have NO spread but just punch a hole in one specific point, CT.

no point in playing for fun anymore, it is just a frustration generating machine.

Id have to agree with the others.....you must be playing in the low elo fish pool to have any issues with LRMS whatsoever.

Ive been killed by LRM blasts twice in the last week, one time on Alpine because i was out of position, and the second time on FC snow because we just couldnt break there line at the ship.


You need to learn better tactics and have a better sense of game flow. Either that, or get yourself on a team or start driving an ECM mech.

armyof1, on 17 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Well I see you still refuse to acknowledge there are so many situations where you're not free to just seek cover or be able to stay behind cover that is not only due to something you did out of stupidity. The problem is anytime you are out of cover now, you get cored so quick because of the way the missiles converge to your CT and often dismiss if your torso twist and get your arm in between the missile shower and CT. And I don't know what it is with some MWO players, it's like they are too macho to realise when some game mechanics are faulty and any thoughts and complaints about it is simply just crying and you just need to learn to play. I mean I'm sure PGI are thankful for that, since they'd never need to balance anything if everyone thought like that because it's always something wrong with the player, never with the game.

Ive seen every incarnation of missiles that PGI has shown us thus far... They are more balanced now then they ever have been.

No, i think you just dont like to have to adapt and figure things out. I play mostly in a Stalker...when im killed with missiles its because I 100% deserved it because either I or my team were out of position.

[SpiralRazor]

Btw, I have also played long enough that i know where the head hit box is on every mech except the Atlas(notoriously hard to hit even if you aim the right eye). With 4+ PPCs/ERPPCs I can pretty much get a head shot 1 hit kill from 540 a fair amount of times bypassing all your CT armor etc....Does this make those weapons IMBA? More so then LRMS where I have to hurl a few hundred and not be blocked by terrain, ECM or fast angular movement?

Edited by SpiralRazor, 17 March 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

armyof1, on 17 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Well I see you still refuse to acknowledge there are so many situations where you're not free to just seek cover or be able to stay behind cover that is not only due to something you did out of stupidity. The problem is anytime you are out of cover now, you get cored so quick because of the way the missiles converge to your CT and often dismiss if your torso twist and get your arm in between the missile shower and CT. And I don't know what it is with some MWO players, it's like they are too macho to realise when some game mechanics are faulty and any thoughts and complaints about it is simply just crying and you just need to learn to play. I mean I'm sure PGI are thankful for that, since they'd never need to balance anything if everyone thought like that because it's always something wrong with the player, never with the game.

I dont get it, why am I magical then? I dont have these issues.

No; Ill try it less snarky and rationally try to explain:

Then again, I learned early on with my founders Jenner how to follow ravines and canyons and how NOT to go into places that are open and expose you - thats stupid, gets you killed.
Firstly, I dont play conquest anymore, I got tired of 3ls winning vs full lances and ppl not being smart enough to figure out before the game is done to raelize zerging to a cap point wont work. The reason I bring that up is because Itll explain some of the following as far as tactics per map. Also, my Atlas runs 2 SRM6, 4 Md las, 1 AC/20 so Im running ALL short range weapons here and no AMS.
Like forest colony for an example. Going right as opposed to going water side and hanging a sign on your mech that says "LRM me to death" Given theres what two sources of cover on that side (well three if you count both sides of the boat's hull)? I generally follow the rest of the group in a game, but I groan aloud when the team goes water side. I pretty much just chalk up the loss as soon as they start going that way and hope there arent many LRMs cause youre gonna die for being stupid.

Or Caustic, breaking the ridgeline on the right if you arent a scout is usually a bad idea, I like going left (though most groups have a suicidal need to go running into the crater) and following the valley there until the scouts start seeing where the enemies are then planning from there.

Or Frozen City, I personally like running the tunnel, mainly cause Im using short range stuff anyways, partially cause youre completely safe from LRMs there and if you run into a LRM running mech in there, all the sweeter. Otherwise, I run so that the buildings are between me and where I expect the enemy to be and try to limit my time out in the spaces between buildings. When I get to the crashed ship, I prefer to run into the valley to the left to provide cover for myself. Basically I like Frozen city (or Ricer city) the best, because you can put cover between yourself and a missile thrower easy as hell.

Or River City, going anywhere there are buildings and staying away from the open water areas as much as possible. Staying by a building gives you easy cover from a LRM thrower AND a place to surprise someone from if they happen not to see/detect you. I really like hiding in the tunnel as a lot of people like going in there. Things I dont do on that map include walking in the bridge, that screams either "shoot me with a gauss" or "LRM me, theres no cover anywhere" equally. I also dont go to the harbor side where the open water is because you get NO cover there until you get into where the enemy base is.

Havent really spent enough time on Alpine and been in combat to for a tactical opinion. In a short range Atlas there, I usually spend all my time LOOKING for someone to shoot at at all
I usually dont go all in depth and rational becayse ppl skip it/ignore it and find the bits they want to reply to and my typing time is just wasted effort

SpiralRazor, on 17 March 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Btw, I have also played long enough that i know where the head hit box is on every mech except the Atlas(notoriously hard to hit even if you aim the right eye). With 4+ PPCs/ERPPCs I can pretty much get a head shot 1 hit kill from 540 a fair amount of times bypassing all your CT armor etc....Does this make those weapons IMBA? More so then LRMS where I have to hurl a few hundred and not be blocked by terrain, ECM or fast angular movement?

oh the RIGHT eye, I keep hitting the left -.-

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 March 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[MischiefSC]

I always find these discussions funny now. I spent the weekend dropping in premades with friends and you know what?

Plenty of LRMs and they rocked the s**t out of people. It's like saying only n00bs get shot by PPCs, anyone with SKILLZ just dodges.

Let me make this perfectly crystal clear -

If you're saying you just never get hit by LRMs and that your team just ignores them I don't believe you and I don't think anyone else believes you. LRM boats are all over and skilled people are using them to good effect to win matches all the time. Even if the don't get the kill they're forcing you into cover while their buddies move up and kill you while you're isolated and they sure as hell damaged you.

LRMs are not the 'FOTM'. They're the most powerful weapon in the game at the moment bar none in terms of damage they do compared to effort involved in deploying them and how effective they are when deployed as part of a team. They make splatcats more viable because people who are not getting 2 shot killed in the open are having to hide behind cover while the splatcat advances to 2 shot you where you're hiding.

This sort of tactic dominates in the same way 4x D-DC + 4x 3Ls dominated for a while.

All the people who are pretending that LRMs are not out of balance right now are, in my opinion, not being entirely honest or possibly play in such a low Elo bracket that nobody knows how to use them.

L2P. How about L2Truth? Quit trying to impress people with your epeen.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ok, dont believe and keep dying, I just hope PGI knows to ignore your tears
Hell I even TRIED to help. What do I get for it? Being called a liar.
and what epeen? Im bottom barrel ELO I bet and I STILL know how to avoid these things.
LOL

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 March 2013 - 11:07 AM.

[Yokaiko]

NRP, on 17 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's easy to say all of that L2P crap, but often times it isn't quite so easy to do in practice.

No really it isn't that hard

[MischiefSC]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 March 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Ok, dont believe and keep dying, I just hope PGI knows to ignore your tears
Hell I even TRIED to help. What do I get for it? Being called a liar.
and what epeen? Im bottom barrel ELO I bet and I STILL know how to avoid these things.
LOL

Sorry Buddah, it's worth pointing out you're not who I was pointing at. Look at the first page and you'll see a lot of e-peen waving. Your post was helpful and well written.

My point though is that LRMs are more effective at different Elo levels, especially in premades or as a part of premade teams. The other night I dropped in 4mans with some friends who are really, really good and who I suspect play several rungs up the ladder from me. It was enlightening.

Almost every game, I mean like 90%, we were not the only premade. In fact about 1 in 3 games our side was 2 premades plus a pug (4man,3man, pug) against a similarly designed group. I know because we also mostly dropped against the same people. It was like 5 total 'sets' of people in rotation with a few poor ******** thrown in randomly as filler (read "food").

I learned some amazing tactics and locations. I also learned that LRMs are just insane. You get a good ECM light or two and 2 or 3 LRM boats at positions around 200 or 250m from each other. There really isn't a place you can hide reliably because both sets have boats with 60 or 70 LRMs in them and if you've got cover from one you don't have cover from the other. The lights are almost always present and if you chase them at all you'll end up... out in the open. Hard to keep teammates from doing so.

If you don't chase them though you're constantly TAGed and the moment one of the two LRM boats has a few of you, in comes enough damage to destroy you in 1-3 hits depending on your mech. Yes, you're trying to close and return fire but the reality is your team will just dissolve.

Your best option is a hard, fast rush right out of the gate with the support of skilled scouts - all of which is very hard to coordinate without Voip.

Where in lies the rub.

LRMs are OPed under the principle that they have hard counters (ECM) and are vulnerable up close (180m minimum range). In return for those nerfs you have weapons that will destroy in a matter of seconds any mech that's vulnerable. Avoiding being vulnerable requires you to play close to the chest and defensively. Against well organized teams on VOIP that's going to get you slaughtered.

So, again. LRMs need damage nerf but speed buff. They need to be slowed but not blocked by ECM. They need to be a smidge less maneuverable but that accuracy returned to them via TAG and NARC. This makes them a better balanced weapon at all skill levels and not the tactic (ECM/missile balance) around which all other tactics have to be built.

I don't do voip/teamspeak but I like to drop in teams sometimes. Hit me up and we'll drop together and I'll show you exactly what I'm talking about