20 replies to this topic

[Leded]

i picked up a DRG-1C. slapped an AC5, 4 Meds and a LRM5. kind of having "ok" luck with it, but any experienced Dragon pilots out there that can offer some tips would be nice

[Ryebear]

Grind some c-bills for a 300/325/350 XL engine. Make a build using http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab and pick your engine accordingly.

Honestly though, most fun Ive had in my 1C was 2 PPCs in the shoulder, 2 Mediums in one arm and either an AC 5+SRM 6 or an AC 10 to round it out, either works well and packing only a 280 XL (which is heresy according to conventional Dragon guidelines of never ever everrrr going below a 300 engine rating in a Dragon). I bound Mouse 1/2 for my arms, Shift for both PPCs and CTRL for PPCs in chain fire and mouse 3 for SRMs when I had them. It takes a bit of skill to use 5 weapon groups effectively but the 2 PPCs from a torso location punches incredibly hard, and I was loving this build back when PPCs had no ECM killing power and heat was still at 9 or 10 or whatever it was.

But I expect you will see a bunch of people recommending 4 Large Lasers, 19 DHS with a 300 XL which I'll admit is the first Dragon/build that really clicked for me (and incredibly easy to play with as well). First heavy mech I got was a 1N which is pretty abysmal compared to the alternatives and was horrible to grind C-Bills with.

Edited by Ryebear, 16 March 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Leded]

yeah i was thinking of an XL to save some tonnage. my CT is such a huge target that my sides rarely get hit, plus the way the weapons are on that thing, if you lose a left or right torso yer mostly out of the fight anways.

[SquawkHawk]

I have prefered:
Faster rather than slower,
Lasers rather than Ballistic, with some SRMs sprinkled in.

I started to enjoy my Dragon 1C more once I got the speed up with a 325XL engine and Im grinding for a 350XL now.
State Rewind for Lasers has meant that 2 Large Lasers on the Arm are great for doing decent mid range damage, while zipping around at speed.

I guess Im one of the bunch of people Ryebear was suggesting would recommend trying a Large Laser build.

[1453 R]

A 325XL or 330XL is a solid investment with a Dragon. Disregard the heretic (witch hunters will be at your door by Tuesday Rye ); a Dragon going less than stock speed is a Dragon that's likely to get murdered quickly.

Dragons are typically referred to as upscale mediums more than 'real' heavies, and if you look at them as such it tends to hold true. A Dragon can take a large XL engine (340+) and go downright spooky-fast for something in the heavyweight bracket, but it then carries an armament one would generally consider medium 'Mech level. The classic example is the scattergun Flame, with four medium lasers, an LBX autocannon, and an SRM pack. Not a lot of gun by the standards of a Cataphract, but there isn't a Cataphract alive that hits 106 with Speed Tweak. Alternatively, pilots can use a 300XL or something only slightly larger (generally the 300 to 320 range), in order to go as fast as most high-end mediums but with a commensurately larger armament. A Dragon with a 300-rated engine has the same speed profile as a Hunchback with a 250 and Speed Tweak, and said Dragon also generally has around thirty tons to devote to weaponry. That is, just so one knows, significantly more weaponry than a Hunchback can carry

What you have to remember is that in either case, the Dragon also carries more armor than the medium. People think of Dragons as fragile because they take less beating-on than a Cataphract or a Hunchback, but they fail to take into account that both of the latter cases are often build to emphasize ruggedness and survivability above most anything else. And in a delicious case of irony, that very notion of the Dragon's fragility and ineffectual nature contributes significantly to its ability to survive on the battlefield. It's like piloting a Cicada - ninety percent of the time the enemy ignores you completely unless you do something outstandingly stupid. They just don't see you as a threat...right up until you rip out their spine or blow half their chest off because you're carrying a forty-point alpha strike going ninety-five. And at that point they're too busy saving their own skin to worry about you.

Now. The 1C is, generally, best employed as an energy sniper with benefits. It can use the Scatterdragon armament common to Flames, but that armament is common on Flames for a reason. The 1C is generally equipped something like this. Save that most players use normal PPCs for their lower heat, but I've always been a fan of avoiding range restrictions. Anyways. The two left-torso PPCs are used for hit-and-fade sniper attacks; the high-mounted energy hardpoints on that torso means you can shoot targets over hills and buildings without exposing much of your 'Mech at all. The lasers and SRMs are good close-defense weapons - you don't have much SRM ammo, but you shouldn't generally need more than what you've got since most of your attacks would, hopefully, be at a distance with the PPCs.

One of the PPCs, some of the heat sinks, and/or a couple tubes out of the SRM launcher can be traded out for an AC/5 if you want to use your ballistics, but that's about the biggest ballistic gun you can stuff in there and still use the PPCs. Some folks prefer to use a heavier autocannon and downgrade the particle cannon to a laser - an AC/10 backed by large and medium lasers and SRMs, a bit like this, can be pretty potent in close range. You do lose your long-distance pinpoint attack though - that particular 1C is more of a medium-range fire support model that can harass at range with its laser rather than a real sniper.

It depends on what you want to do with it, really. Dragons are amazingly flexible in the hands of pilots willing to give them a shot. And, unfortunately, spend a lot of money doing it. These are not cheap machines to play around with...X_X

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I love my DRG-1N ... LL & UAC-5 in the arms and ML & 2xSRM-4 in the torso, endo, DHS, XL 345. It's not a killer (I rarely get more than 2 kills per match), but at over 100 kph (w/ Speed Tweak), it is a survivor, and I usually get 4+ assists.

My favorite tactic is to harass larger mechs, circling around them, behind cover, then towards the heavier mechs on my team ... the more time they spend chasing me, the more time they spend in the crosshairs of my teammates. With the right loadout (the one above is not it), they can be viable short-range defense against lights and other short range mechs harassing your assaults.

The DRG is not a good sniper or front-line brawler, nor is it a good scout, it's a flanker, a harasser. Unless you are focus-firing as a large group, do not slow down (even then, it is a bad idea). Above all, if you find yourself outnumbered, get back to your team.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 16 March 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Methuselah Honeysuckle]

This is currently how my 1C is set up. Mixed results, but I'm having fun (excluding Alpine).

[Murku]

Dragon lovers have already delivered here, heed their sage advice.

If I was to add anything it would be about tactics in the Field. Just because you can go 100kph doesn't mean you need to start playing like a Light, instead use the same kind of tactics you'd employ in a Hunchback. Support your bigger team mates, adding what damage you can while avoiding focused attention. Be the guy to quickly fill a hole or rid an Assault of a pestering Light or Medium. Then, when the big push comes or it all hits the fan go at it full throttle. But only then.

A high engine rating makes for a very responsive harrasser, ducking in and out of cover between shots.

Oh, and yes, that 2 LT PPC 1C Dragon is golden.

Edited by Murku, 17 March 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Hurricane Bob]

i find that the DRG-1N is the king of dragons right now and the 1C dwarfs in comparison.
this is how i play my 1N: flanker or mobile fire suport
they are both tested and the results are vicious

[Roughneck45]

Hurricane Bob, on 17 March 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

i find that the DRG-1N is the king of dragons right now and the 1C dwarfs in comparison.

Going to have to completley disagree with that one. The 1C and Flame are hands down the best variants.
DRG-1C
This is the best Dragon build I have ever used, and ive tried everything under the sun. You can make more effective sniping builds, or builds with more speed, but as far as an overall speed/armor/firepower package nothing is better than this.

[Hurricane Bob]

Roughneck45, on 17 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Going to have to completley disagree with that one. The 1C and Flame are hands down the best variants.
DRG-1C
This is the best Dragon build I have ever used, and ive tried everything under the sun. You can make more effective sniping builds, or builds with more speed, but as far as an overall speed/armor/firepower package nothing is better than this.

i see 2 major flaws in your argument: if you snipe in that you will be out gunned and because the dragon has legs with big profile i think you get legged allot and if you brawl with it, its arms are so wide and low placed that when your face2face with someone they wont have enough room to converge (thats why i use the LBX10).
you people play them like snipers but the other heavys dominate dragons at this role so hard, and no sniper needs to run at 90kph.
my point being, dragons are meant to be harassers, agressive and utilize their superior mobility to engage.

Edited by Hurricane Bob, 17 March 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[1453 R]

On the contrary. The Dragon can't poptart as well as a Cataphract can due to, y'know, not having jump jets. It also can't do six PPCs like a Stalker can so it, too, can enjoy the thrilling gameplay of shutting down every other alpha.

That said...real snipers practice stick and move, and there are few BattleMechs better at stick and move than the Dragon chassis. Flanking and harassing don't have to be done at brawler range, and PPCs are really damn good at landing single shots before taking off for the hills. I may prefer a good ol' AC/10 myself, but the PPC guys are by no means doing it wrong.

[Hurricane Bob]

there is only 1 map, so far, that allows "harassing from long range" and thats the alpine peaks map, on the other maps its called sniping, you can land a gauss shot from one corner to the oposite.

[subgenius]

Roughneck45, on 17 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Going to have to completley disagree with that one. The 1C and Flame are hands down the best variants.
DRG-1C
This is the best Dragon build I have ever used, and ive tried everything under the sun. You can make more effective sniping builds, or builds with more speed, but as far as an overall speed/armor/firepower package nothing is better than this.

Yes to this. The build here is basically identical to what I use in my flame, which is about the best thing I've ever piloted. Plenty of damage output with the speed (I think a 300xl is enough if you have speed tweak) to reposition quickly. If you're looking for something effective to try, go no further.

[Roughneck45]

Hurricane Bob, on 17 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

i see 2 major flaws in your argument: if you snipe in that you will be out gunned and because the dragon has legs with big profile i think you get legged allot and if you brawl with it, its arms are so wide and low placed that when your face2face with someone they wont have enough room to converge (thats why i use the LBX10).
you people play them like snipers but the other heavys dominate dragons at this role so hard, and no sniper needs to run at 90kph.
my point being, dragons are meant to be harassers, agressive and utilize their superior mobility to engage.

No flaws really. Those are piloting errors.

Its an all round build. NO Dragon sniping build can out snipe any other heavy mech designed to do the same thing. The catapult and Cataphract are better at it in all situations.

Ive been piloting this build since the first day ENDO and DHS came out. Been legged once, maybe twice, ever?

The lasers converge 100% of the time. LBX is incredibly underpowered, and you are gimping yourself and your team by taking one.

Having a gauss rifle does not make you a sniper, it just gives you an extreme range option, and the burst damage to be an effective Dragon. With the lasers and SRMs, you have enough alpha to stand toe to toe with just about anything in a brawl. If you have better aim and piloting skills than the enemy with this build you can easily take down larger mechs. Not the case if you want to bring LL's and PPC's.

Edited by Roughneck45, 18 March 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[Gevurah]

Roughneck45, on 17 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Going to have to completley disagree with that one. The 1C and Flame are hands down the best variants.
DRG-1C
This is the best Dragon build I have ever used, and ive tried everything under the sun. You can make more effective sniping builds, or builds with more speed, but as far as an overall speed/armor/firepower package nothing is better than this.

Seconded. This build is one of my staples and I love it.

Though I usually rock a 280XL in mine.

Currently I use my dragon 1C in this mode:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e0c0a2735d14e0a

The 280XL I find is the perfect engine for a dragon. Not too slow, good weight, seems to allow a much better choice in payload than the 300, etc.

The PPC/ERPPC thing is for better heat control due to reduced heatsinks. That extra 2 or so heat is very noticeable. Sometimes I'll strip a ton of gauss ammo and run an 11th DHS too. I wanted to be able to hit up close (ER PPC) with reduced chance of overheat (PPC). 2x ER was just absolute MURDER on heat.

This thing is a 500+ dmg monster on a regular basis and god help the enemy on alpine.

[John MatriX82]

Roughneck45, on 17 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

Going to have to completley disagree with that one. The 1C and Flame are hands down the best variants.
DRG-1C
This is the best Dragon build I have ever used, and ive tried everything under the sun. You can make more effective sniping builds, or builds with more speed, but as far as an overall speed/armor/firepower package nothing is better than this.

^this. Dragons needs GR and XL's. 1C is an all-around hunter, capable to give headaches to any other mech in the field. I also love 1N, practically it's like this, with larger engine (320 o 325) 2 Ml and dual SRM4.. great striker.

Dragons with GR are extremely close to the play you do in jumpy cataphracts 3D. You won't pop-up from cover in no time like they do, but you can dictate the distance and the engaging point over your enemy all the time. If something closes up you have quite of a payload.

The worst dragon under this pov is the 5N. Too few backup weapons and too low tonnage to be an effective dakka platform.. I've got rid of it.

Gevurah, on 18 March 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

The 280XL I find is the perfect engine for a dragon. Not too slow, good weight, seems to allow a much better choice in payload than the 300, etc.

You're basically a CTF 3D without jump capability. I've never tried to run it like this, I'm more of a brawler and I've always had bad feelings when switching to engines below 300 rating, even a 295 doesn't feel good, of course I play it more like a long range harasser/striker then close in to brawl once the prey is softened up.

Edited by John MatriX82, 18 March 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Roughneck45]

John MatriX82, on 18 March 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

You're basically a CTF 3D without jump capability. I've never tried to run it like this, I'm more of a brawler and I've always had bad feelings when switching to engines below 300 rating, even a 295 doesn't feel good, of course I play it more like a long range harasser/striker then close in to brawl once the prey is softened up.

Same here. I never go below 300 because then there is a good chance that other heavies can keep up with you. With the speed tweak going just under 90kph is very nice.

[Gevurah]

Actually it started as a proof of concept build where I took the engine and put it in there to see what I could cram on there to make it comparable to catapults/phracts in payload. I will say though compared to my 3D, the dragon is WAY more survivable.

I'll try mucking around with a bigger engine though. I have too many XL's sitting around collecting dust right now.

Edited by Gevurah, 18 March 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[John MatriX82]

Roughneck45, on 18 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Same here. I never go below 300 because then there is a good chance that other heavies can keep up with you. With the speed tweak going just under 90kph is very nice.

Yep but not only, it's also about general torso twist and maneuverability.. 300 is my minimum, and I hardly find myself into configurations with more than 320-325, you don't have enough firepower and speed can't compensate it imho.

Gevurah, on 18 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

Actually it started as a proof of concept build where I took the engine and put it in there to see what I could cram on there to make it comparable to catapults/phracts in payload. I will say though compared to my 3D, the dragon is WAY more survivable.

In the Dragons everyone will aim at your fat CT. The left arm is quite high, therefore you can effectively employ it to shield the eventual ballistics in the other arm; add speed, huge torso twist and decent amount of armor and yes, a CTF with the XL is dead by time..