251 replies to this topic

[Ground Pounder]

Team Leader, on 17 March 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

where does that say, they should do NO damage to mechs Team Leader?

Edited by Ground Pounder, 17 March 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[AlexEss]

Squigles, on 17 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

At this point you're just trolling as you out of hand dismiss anything that contradict's your viewpoint

This goes for both sides i like to say... In equal amount.

[Utilyan]

Folks you should always be against buffing MGs, thats how it got NERFED the last time.

Prior to feb patch, 160 damage a round, when feb patch came, 250 damage, one patch later, 11 damage.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ground Pounder, on 17 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun


Nuff said...regardless of what folks want Machine Guns to be, They are, have always been and always will be intended primarily for anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle purposes and at best are a nuisance against enemy battlemechs.

Gl/HF
Very Respectfully,
Ground Pounder

Wow! You just pointed out what about a trillion* posts before you pointed out. And now you will see all the counter-arguments that have been posted a trillion times.

Here are mine:
Rules and Lore-Wise
1) Despite being the quintessential Anti-Infantry weapon, the MG did a whopping 2 points of damage per shot (at ranges up to 90m). The damage is the same as that of an Auto-Cannon 2.
2) There is a mech used in mech-only arena combats that exclusively uses Machine Guns. (Funnily enough, it's called "Piranha". It seems Piranha Games doesn't want its name-sake mech to be useful?)

Game-Wise (and this is really the important thing)
1) This is a pure Battlemech combat game. We don't need weapons that are not useful against Battlemechs.
2) There are 2 low-weight mechs that come with 4 ballistic slots, in pairs positioned in a single hit location each pair. You don't always have to fill all the slots on a mech, but it would be rather pointless of creating a mech that cannot possibly use these slots. These mechs are not heavy enough to hope to carry more than one AC/2, so they must eventually resort to Machine Guns. But any build currently focusing on these Machine Guns would be inferior to any alternative Mech of the same weight that can use other weapons. A 2 ML Spider is superior to a 4 MG + 1 ML Spider, and the 2 ML Spider is already inferior to a 5 ton lighter Commando!


*) numbers may be slightly exaggerated.

[Tarman]

Wow, THIS thread again.

Read before you post, OP; you are late to this party by seven months. And it was wrong then too.

[Xetherius]

MGs are useless?

[Quxudica]

Ground Pounder, on 17 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Machine_Gun


Nuff said...regardless of what folks want Machine Guns to be, They are, have always been and always will be intended primarily for anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle purposes and at best are a nuisance against enemy battlemechs.

Gl/HF
Very Respectfully,
Ground Pounder

If this game had light vehicles or infantry, this would be valid. Since neither exist nor are likely to ever exist in MWO, having weapons in the game only useful against them is bad game design. This isn't debatable, it's just like having a character in a movie get lots of screen time but contribute nothing to the films plot or development is objectively bad writing.

Further, it serves only to confuse and hamper new players who aren't expecting there to be weapon choices (and entire mech chassis) that are useless. If you pop into a game featuring Giant Badass Robots killing other Giant Badass Robots and nothing else, you don't expect a Proton-Pack only useful for capturing ghosts to be a weapon option.

[MustrumRidcully]

Quxudica, on 18 March 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

If this game had light vehicles or infantry, this would be valid. Since neither exist nor are likely to ever exist in MWO, having weapons in the game only useful against them is bad game design. This isn't debatable, it's just like having a character in a movie get lots of screen time but contribute nothing to the films plot or development is objectively bad writing.

Further, it serves only to confuse and hamper new players who aren't expecting there to be weapon choices (and entire mech chassis) that are useless. If you pop into a game featuring Giant Badass Robots killing other Giant Badass Robots and nothing else, you don't expect a Proton-Pack only useful for capturing ghosts to be a weapon option.

That's a great idea!

Off to the Suggestion Forums!

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 18 March 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[El Penguin]

I don't understand how there's even a discussion on this. The points have been made so many times.

Machine guns are suppose to do the same damage as AC/2s

Machine guns were created before infantry ever existed

They have a bonus against infantry, Alright cool! Does not mean they should be weaker than a AC/2 in its range which if I heard right, was nerfed as well. So I'll repeat myself again, MGs do 2 damage so they are able to be effective against mechs. There shouldn't be any confusion.

[CrashieJ]

zipzopzoopidybop, on 17 March 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Has this guy never heard of the Spider 5K? Its in the game ya know.....

Maybe it was just a joke mech we weren't supposed to use.

then the joke is on PGI because I just finished up the Master Module slot with 4 machineguns, a small laser, and 26 kills under it's belt

[Vassago Rain]

Let me tell you about one of the most dangerous mechs in the game's very long history.

[Vassago Rain]

Ground Pounder, on 17 March 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

*shakes head*

Can someone name one battlemech whose primary anti-mech weapon is the MG?

can someone name one battlemech that carries predominately machine guns that is not classed as an anti-infantry or infantry support mech?

Your purpose here is pretty obvious and ludicrous...you want to take a mech, strap it with as many mgs as possible and run of blasting the enemy with it...its a power gaming ploy, a gimmick attempt and sad.

Piranha, unseen lights, many old mechs, the good, useful 'scouts...' You have no idea how dangerous machineguns are in CBT.

Look at MW3 for a more accurate portrayal. They have no range, but shred everything in seconds when boated.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

gavilatius, on 18 March 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

then the joke is on PGI because I just finished up the Master Module slot with 4 machineguns, a small laser, and 26 kills under it's belt

That is the build of a lunatic. I don't think I'd be comfortable with you being around small children. You could mount a single ac/2 and get almost four times the DPS of your ridiculous 4mg/1SL build. Holy crap that's a bad robot.

[Tor6]

Threads like this make me wish I could dislike posts instead of just having the option to like them.

I can only assume he's trolling, but I've seen enough posts by people who can quote Sarna on something and then adamantly claim that it supports their assertion even though it says exactly the opposite.

If he is trolling then he really needs to put more effort into it, because this is disappointing. :/

[Sifright]

gavilatius, on 18 March 2013 - 12:44 AM, said:

then the joke is on PGI because I just finished up the Master Module slot with 4 machineguns, a small laser, and 26 kills under it's belt

lol you ground out tens of thousands of xp and only managed to get 26 kills?

hahaha thats just baaaaaaaad.

Also why did you put a small laser in it? mgs are heat neutral should have jammed a large laser in.

lastly





Pretty sure a mech that can't do any damage to its enemies is useless the above atlas mastered its self in what 6 hours? How long did your awful spider take to manage that whilst only getting 26 kills?

And yes getting kills and dealing damage is the only thing that matters.

[Yanlowen Cage]

Someone probably already stated this somewhere in this thread. Mg's are short range,low damage, low heat, rapid fire, CRIT SEEKERS wnen used for anti mech. They are normally fired on targets that already have armor breaches to wreck internals. Even in TT they were not used often in that role. But, they were used as hunter killers for infantry and vehicle. The main difference between MWO and TT is that TT has vehicles and infantry. Without those the mg has a very limited role in this game.

[Commander Kobold]

MGs need damage buff to be made valid, there's literally no argument about it,why do this threads keep popping up?

Yanlowen Cage, on 18 March 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Someone probably already stated this somewhere in this thread. Mg's are short range,low damage, low heat, rapid fire, CRIT SEEKERS wnen used for anti mech. They are normally fired on targets that already have armor breaches to wreck internals. Even in TT they were not used often in that role. But, they were used as hunter killers for infantry and vehicle. The main difference between MWO and TT is that TT has vehicles and infantry. Without those the mg has a very limited role in this game.

but they don't crit seek any better than a SL does so they still need a dmg buff and MGs where in the original TT game before infantry was so yes they where supposed to do dmg to mechs.

[Quxudica]

Yanlowen Cage, on 18 March 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Someone probably already stated this somewhere in this thread. Mg's are short range,low damage, low heat, rapid fire, CRIT SEEKERS wnen used for anti mech. They are normally fired on targets that already have armor breaches to wreck internals. Even in TT they were not used often in that role. But, they were used as hunter killers for infantry and vehicle. The main difference between MWO and TT is that TT has vehicles and infantry. Without those the mg has a very limited role in this game.

It doesn't help that there's almost no reason to build for crits. Mechs - even Atlas - die very quickly to normal weapon configs once armor is gone. If all damage was nerfed across the board by a large percentage and 1vs1 mech fights could take minutes, then yeah MGs could be very valuable. But right now there is no reason for them to exist.

Even if you want to take out a valuable weapon on an enemy mech like a Hunchs ac/20, it's still far better to use weapons to blow out the side torso then to try and RNG kill the cannon via crits.

[Commander Kobold]

Sifright, on 18 March 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

lol you ground out tens of thousands of xp and only managed to get 26 kills?

hahaha thats just baaaaaaaad.

Also why did you put a small laser in it? mgs are heat neutral should have jammed a large laser in.

lastly





Pretty sure a mech that can't do any damage to its enemies is useless the above atlas mastered its self in what 6 hours? How long did your awful spider take to manage that whilst only getting 26 kills?

And yes getting kills and dealing damage is the only thing that matters.

dude you're comparing an atlas to a spider...go back to bed you're obviously delusional.

[Sifright]

Omni 13, on 18 March 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

dude you're comparing an atlas to a spider...go back to bed you're obviously delusional.

I'd compare my jenner which has a higher kdr and gets about the same damage per game i play except when i get creamed by 3ls but then you'd come up with something else that is a reason to ignore what i put up



Oh wait no i have smaller KDR with my jenner my bad. Spider with mgs is still a trash mech and that guys point was absurd.

By the By, the devs have stated they want the mech classes to work as a kind of rock, paper, scissors. ergo complaining i am comparing Spiders to atlases is something you will have to bring up with the devs because they envision a game where light mechs can wreck assaults.

this isn't the battle tech of your youth.

Edited by Sifright, 18 March 2013 - 03:06 AM.