20 replies to this topic

[FrDrake]

My thread about my experience last weekend seemed to generate some attention so I'm going to give it another go using my in game experiences this weekend.

This time the notable events were light ECM wolf packs and how they are very beatable now.

River City, dock spawn: We get one dc at the start and a cicada goes kappa to try to steal the cap, rest of the team goes epsilon. Enemy kills cicada pretty quickly, starts capping gamma nearly at the same time we get epsilon. Our mechs start waddling over to gamma in a thin stream and I think well so much for this match. But what appears to be an enemy light premade(we had one light mech, they had 4) comes out and engages our line in the water by gamma. 3 3Ls, 1 Jenner, later on a cicada too but he's not really light. I figured our mechs would quickly be burned down but I went ahead and started laying into a raven anyway as he danced around between us, I was in a 5 LL stalker. What happened next I didn't expect, I eventually legged the 3L I was working on and after finishing him off noticed that my team of mediums/heavies had actually killed the others as well. State rewind in a 5 LL mech makes killing lights not a laborious chore as it used to be, aim for the legs and they actually pop in a reasonable number of hits. A group of ECM lights got owned by the mechs that should own them, I was astonished. We proceeded to win that match after killing the last few of their team.

A few matches later in forest colony again a group of ECM lights (2 ravens and a spider this time) decided to play the ECM @#$# game with my team and were actually destroyed fairly quickly. The team stayed together and focused the ECMers that showed up ahead of their team and demolished them. They were hardly invulnerable.

This story is about a team who got destroyed by ECM lights: River City again, night this time, dock spawn. We make for epsilon, one cat goes kappa, we tell him in group chat to rejoin group, but he doesn't talk and still goes for kappa, quickly his triangle blinks out and he is destroyed. Our fasts cap epsilon and the rest head for sigma through lower city. 3 of us arrive at sigma and notice that in lower city two of triangles disappear but we can't see anything down there, and then 2 more destroyed messages. 4 of us at sigma now not sure what to do when our fifth a catapault comes smoking up to sigma with laser behind him. It was like a scene from Jurassic Park where there's a line of people and then they slowly start disappearing one by one, you're not quite sure when you saw them last or where they were, just that they're gone and you didn't even hear a scream. And then all hell breaks loose as the raptors confident in their numbers decide to just brute force the last remaining camp and throw stealth to the wind. 2 3Ls, a jenner and spider were among us, ducking in and out of cover, then a DDC, and a stalker came up the ramp to sigma as we were still dealing with the confusion of the light swarm that had just hit us. Needless to say that was the worst loss I suffered this weekend, I only did 22 damage ( I rarely do less than 200) and we barely scratched any of them. It was an utter route but it was our fault, we stretched out way too thin when we moved and the enemy exploited it.

TL:DR The light pack relies on picking off lone prey, they used to be able to swim in enemy mechs to kill their target but now with state rewind (hopefully for ballistics soon) they are dead meat if they try. I still think ECM is a bit too OP but at least now if I'm up against 4 of them I think we have a chance.

[NRP]

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

[Vermaxx]

The bonus of ECM is that you cannot see a target letter, and cannot ID the mech to even call out the pilot.

So, if the mechs are painted similarly (or bone stock), you have a hard time coordinating fire. Coordinated laser fire always was dangerous to lights. The major issues were speed and lag. They've made strides at dealing with lag, so speed is becoming less protective than it used to be.

ECM is not a god device. It is a GOOD device, but still requires some paying attention.

LIKE SWITCH THE &^#$@!^%$( THING TO COUNTER IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE AND THE ENEMY HAS ONE TOO.

[Flyby215]

Some lights still have their tricks. Yesterday I was facing off with a Raven who would jump (like some sort of glitch-teleport) about a half-inch on my screen every time he came out from behind a building, causing me to completely miss my PPC shot. It was really consistent though, and I began to compensate for the jump and started to land hits. Unfortunately I had already been damaged from a brawl with an Atlas and was unable to hold on.

[FrostCollar]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

ECM still cloaks user locations and cuts off nearby friendlies from your information network. Two 3L's are still a powerful force even if they aren't facing streaks.

Still, I'm sure things will be better once state rewind is more broadly implemented and the splash damage issues with missiles are dealt with.

[BlackWidow]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

Yes yes. You are very smart. Now shut up. (said with smile)

[Tatula]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

You can't direct fire at something that can sneak up behind you unseen and alpha your back armor a couple of time before running away before you can turn around.

[NRP]

You can if you drive a Catapult. That thing can literally look behind itself.

[Vasces Diablo]

The other day I was pugging in my 3L. Ended up in a team with 2 other 3Ls and the ECM Cicada. Opposing team had a single 3L that we rolled in about 30sec. After that it was a slaughter. We just went from mech to mech tearing them to shreds. It was mostly mediums and heavies, they had a single assault (Atlas of course). We won 8-0 with almost 6 kills going to the ECM group (I had 2).

I was brutal, I felt dirty. The kills were great, but if it was new players on the other team and this was their part of their initial experience, that's pretty terrible.

[Tatula]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

You can if you drive a Catapult. That thing can literally look behind itself.

And if you look behind you and find a D-DC about to go full alpha on you?

[Vermaxx]

New people got paid 400k to get torn apart like that. I don't mind so much anymore if I'm on another account still in it's infancy matches. Lot of things roll off my back when I'm making twice what I would have to WORK FOR WITH PREMIUM RUNNING.

[Zerberus]

Vasces Diablo, on 18 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

The other day I was pugging in my 3L. Ended up in a team with 2 other 3Ls and the ECM Cicada. Opposing team had a single 3L that we rolled in about 30sec. After that it was a slaughter. We just went from mech to mech tearing them to shreds. It was mostly mediums and heavies, they had a single assault (Atlas of course). We won 8-0 with almost 6 kills going to the ECM group (I had 2).

I was brutal, I felt dirty. The kills were great, but if it was new players on the other team and this was their part of their initial experience, that's pretty terrible.

I was probably the atlas driver, because that sounds like every match I`ve played since Friday afternoon... Haven`t even logged in today because I don`t really see the point in doing so after getting stomped nonstop for 4 entire days, because exactly that happens in every match. Only 1 assault (me), no ecm or a 3l that thinks he`s Rambo, 6 other chickens running arouns with their heads cut off. Vs 3 ormore ECM units, 3 or more assaults, and something to fill the void. 5 kills in 4 days, in >100 matches, of which not one was even remotely balanced. At this point in time, I wish I had never purchased an assault mech OR a mech without ECM.

My friend that started a few days complained to me after 10 matches about the insane difficulty level" How do you even know ehat to hit and wehre to go? I never see anything red or blue on the minimap or after the first 500 yards, but always go down in one hit. Are you sure thsi is not Pay to Win?". He hasn`t come online since Thursday, simply becasue the one time he won and got a kill there were "4 huge mechs with skulls and 3 of those small fast ones that look like a dart on legs, and I that time could see everything just fine and actually shoot something". Me: Yeah, that`s ECM, some mechs can mount it." "Ah, and you probably have to pay real money to get it, right". "No, it`s just a bit overpowered right now" "A bit? So I can buy this for ingame cash, are you sure?" "Yes, 100%" "And how am I supposed to win enough money to buy it"... and I have no answer for him that does not require an insanely long grind or spending real money, because I`m averaging 30k bills /match instead of the 100 I was getting for the past months and a half or so and am pleasantly surprised at THAT.

Tomorrow`s patch notes will define whether or not I play again in earnest before the April 2nd patch or just play Hawken until then... That`s how little fun it it in pugs with a non-ecm atlas right now, enough to make me say **** it halfway to purchasing a DDC becasue I don`t exploit broken mechanics and that`s exactly what I would have been doing by buying a D-DC instead of a K.

As it stands, I can either feel like I`m cheating constantly and play a DC, or get stomped constantly. In which case I choose to play a different game, as I have in the past.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[FrDrake]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

State rewind has made things drastically better, people who just /q when up against ECM lights should give it another go.

This post more of a PSA about the current state of ECM lights than anything else.

Vasces Diablo, on 18 March 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

The other day I was pugging in my 3L. Ended up in a team with 2 other 3Ls and the ECM Cicada. Opposing team had a single 3L that we rolled in about 30sec. After that it was a slaughter. We just went from mech to mech tearing them to shreds. It was mostly mediums and heavies, they had a single assault (Atlas of course). We won 8-0 with almost 6 kills going to the ECM group (I had 2).

I was brutal, I felt dirty. The kills were great, but if it was new players on the other team and this was their part of their initial experience, that's pretty terrible.

I absolutely hate when my lone ECM light mech on my team runs off and dies in the first minute, it's such a waste.

[Accident]

I'm sure it is better, but I still believe that if every mech could equip ECM, every mech would. That to me says that ECM still needs some work.

-Accident

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

NRP, on 18 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

ECM has always been irrelevant when you use direct fire weapons. Not sure why you felt it necessary to take pot shots at ECM in this post, given that you weren't using streaks or LRMs. What you describe is what we all have been doing since the net code/state rewind improvements.

HSR is only in for hitscan weapons. Balistics and missiles don't have it yet.

[Rakashan]

I don't have a problem with lights with ECM in general. Perhaps that is because of the way splash hoses a COM right now. I *can* say, however, that the hitboxes on RVN-3Ls are a nightmare though. You can tell easily if you hit a RVN-3L with a PPC because his ECM will go off in a way that is immediately visible (the X through it and he becomes targettable). Now, did his armor change color? If not, what happened to the damage that must have been done to turn off the ECM? I happened to drop in an Atlas with 2x ER PPC against a couple of friends of mine who were in 3Ls the other night. I know from ECM that I hit one of them three times with paired PPCs. I know that his armor never went below yellow. Can't wait to see what the new hitboxes bring tomorrow.

[hammerreborn]

Aloha, on 18 March 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

And if you look behind you and find a D-DC about to go full alpha on you?

Then you are a terrible pilot or have a terrible team that allowed the fattest almost slowest mech in the game to sneak up on you? I mean, you do understand your radar doesn't show behind you anyways, so any mech in the game could have done it. Actually, they would have done it better because when they snuck up on you you wouldn't get a "low signal" notification to tell you that D-DC was there in the first place.

If you get shot from behind, it's your own damn fault (and trust me, I've killed more than a fair share of mechs from behind without them even turning around...IN A JENNER).

[FrDrake]

hammerreborn, on 18 March 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Then you are a terrible pilot or have a terrible team that allowed the fattest almost slowest mech in the game to sneak up on you? I mean, you do understand your radar doesn't show behind you anyways, so any mech in the game could have done it. Actually, they would have done it better because when they snuck up on you you wouldn't get a "low signal" notification to tell you that D-DC was there in the first place.

If you get shot from behind, it's your own damn fault (and trust me, I've killed more than a fair share of mechs from behind without them even turning around...IN A JENNER).

I won't lie, a DDC snuck up on me yesterday :/

I was in my LRM boat too, I went 4/2 that match and we lost with just two of them alive, but if I had noticed him before I did then we would have won it. I was at Theta in forest colony with my back to the water, he went apart from his team and circled back around us while we killed most of his teammates, then SRM boated us all to death in short order. A risky tactic but paid off in that match.

It was his ECM that gave him away and let me get 80 damage into his CT with my medium lasers, if he had been a splatcat I wouldn't have turned around until I had gotten back alphaed. I turned around and he was at 170m, I thought about it later and my first instinct was to back pedal and try to use the theta command base as cover but he was faster than my back pedal, what I should have done was charged him instead and tried to break 180m before he could turn around. Will try that next time.

[SpartanFiredog317]

Hokay, so.... those of you thinking ECM is just fine where it is.... Run a Raven 3L or Atlas DC without ECM.... announce it in /all chat in every match you play... and lemme know the kind of responses you folks get....

ECM is defeatable, and if it where hardcapped at 2 ecm capable mechs per team, it might be balanced... but because matchmaker can cobble together a team with 2 DDC, and 2 3L's against another team with 0 ECM... makes things ridiculous, so either it needs to be a top priority for the ELO/Matchmaker team balance OR it needs the nerfbat so that a 0 ECM team has a fighting chance against a 4-8 ECM team.

[Rocdocta]

lol how does something that weighs 100T and moves 48kph sneak up on people...? the closest i have come to sneaking up on someone was when i shut down and a jenner came around the corner and saw me. funniest thing i have ever seen. a mech literally back pedalling to get away. if i was a good shot he wouldnt have made it...