36 replies to this topic

[Clay Pigeon]

Reduce SRM, SSRM and LRM damage to their canon values.

As time progresses and we start getting even more powerful launchers (eg SSRM6, clanLRM20), missiles will start being even more hair-pullingly OP.

Please preemptively address this.

[VitaminAcid]

i pretty sure srms and streaks are very close to their canon values, they did double the damage of lrms and mrms.

[Dishevel]

Should they also reduce armor to canon values?
What about fire rate?
What about random hit locations for all weapons?
What about no hardpoint restrictions?
What about only stock mechs?

Canon is is not a reason. Do you have a reason or just making demands?

[stjobe]

If you wait two weeks, missile splash damage will be gone (splash damage that made a single SSRM do 12.9 damage to a Commando, and progressively less the heavier the 'mech).

It will be removed in the April 2nd patch.

[OneManWar]

MRM's are not in this game. SRM's and Streams do 2.5. LRM's are at 1.8. None of them are ven doubled just FYI.

[zhajin]

once splash is gone i think the values will be good. if they bring splash back they may need to tone it back a bit.

[EyeOne]

I have no problem with the missiles current damage values assuming they weren't bugged. The bugged values are very wrong.

But honestly the damage of the SSRM isn't the problem, it's the firing mechanic.

[sC4r]

to canon or cannon or gun values or anything like that nope

but reduce it a little bit would be nice
though i would like to see how the removing of splash will affect the game first

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

If you wait two weeks, missile splash damage will be gone (splash damage that made a single SSRM do 12.9 damage to a Commando, and progressively less the heavier the 'mech).

It will be removed in the April 2nd patch.

This is a total misnomer. These are numbers from the training ground that damage numbers are royaly broken. In live I've seen no evidence of it at all and I've nailed a commando dead center at point blant with 2 SRM6's, it wasn't annihilated like in the TG.

Devs have said this is effecting live as well butthere's no evidence of it. So either they are wrong (known to happen) or this only occures in certain sitautions.

Which means that its not splash damage that makes people, like myself beleive missiles should have their damage reduced.

But even if splash damage worked, then thats a SECOND damage buff to missiles. The buff to base damage plus additive splash damage means they have twice the advantage over other weapons. That is not balanced if you use common sense.

Edited by M4rtyr, 18 March 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[stjobe]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Devs have said this is effecting live as well butthere's no evidence of it.

Here you go, video from the live game courtesy of Wardenwolf,

But you're right, the SRM in that test doesn't do 7 times its listed value, only 3 times (7.5 damage per SRM).

If it wasn't affecting live, do you think they'd pull splash damage? Obviously not, so since they're doing that, it does affect live.

Edited by stjobe, 18 March 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Clay Pigeon, on 18 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Reduce SRM, SSRM and LRM damage to their canon values.

As time progresses and we start getting even more powerful launchers (eg SSRM6, clanLRM20), missiles will start being even more hair-pullingly OP.

Please preemptively address this.

They cant really do that because were getting double the armor 1.5 is the magic number for LRMs that cuts 50 missiles down to 75 dmg. right now 50 missles do about 95. Don't worry about clan stuff they can barely balance the IS weapons.

[Royalewithcheese]

1. Keep calm and carry on.
2. Wait for the splash damage fix.
3. See if missiles still seem like a problem to you on April 2nd.

[Lykaon]

Dishevel, on 18 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Should they also reduce armor to canon values?
What about fire rate?
What about random hit locations for all weapons?
What about no hardpoint restrictions?
What about only stock mechs?

Canon is is not a reason. Do you have a reason or just making demands?

I would say that the current game reflects that SRMs are a superior weapon system due to the copious amounts of SRM based builds seen in nearly every match.

When a particular weapon is used with such frequency and used as a "boated" weapon when ever possible it may be an indication that SRMs are out of scale with other weapons.

How often do you see a Catapult A1 that isn't using 6 X SRM6s?
Or how many CN-9A Centurions do you see that do not mount tripple SRM6 racks even at the cost of the supposed primary weapon an autocannon?

How many Raven 3Ls do not fill the missile hardpoints with streaks?

All this to me indicates a need to investigate SRMs and SSRMs.

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Here you go, video from the live game courtesy of Wardenwolf,

But you're right, the SRM in that test doesn't do 7 times its listed value, only 3 times (7.5 damage per SRM).

If it wasn't affecting live, do you think they'd pull splash damage? Obviously not, so since they're doing that, it does affect live.

See I'm staring at the video and not see it say how much damage was done other then the text. Thats not proof.

When I can hit a commando in the TG with a single SRM6 and it's almost dead all torso armor stripped and CT internals red. Then in live hit a damaged commando in the face with 2 6's and it still has armor in all areas. Then this is not an issue. Also when i alpha my splatacat at poihnt blank and get 94 damage, only 4 more then the max alpha. I'm not seeing any splash bug.

As for them removing it. if it was just a bug they would fix the bug not REMOVE it. You almost never flat out remove a mechnic you just fix it. However they said they were goting to remove it and retune it. That tells me its not just about a bug but about rethinking how they want it to effect the game. There is a difference when you consider the development cycle.

[Flashback37]

Personally, I think the main problem with missiles is how much ammo you can carry. I spent 3 minutes in cover while it rained lrms on Frozen city the other day. 3 minutes. Every mech that carried ams on my team ran out of ammo before the missile boats did. Of course we slaughtered them shortly afterward as there were maybe 4 ml between them.

[Baltasar]

Lykaon, on 18 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I would say that the current game reflects that SRMs are a superior weapon system due to the copious amounts of SRM based builds seen in nearly every match.

When a particular weapon is used with such frequency and used as a "boated" weapon when ever possible it may be an indication that SRMs are out of scale with other weapons.

How often do you see a Catapult A1 that isn't using 6 X SRM6s?
Or how many CN-9A Centurions do you see that do not mount tripple SRM6 racks even at the cost of the supposed primary weapon an autocannon?

How many Raven 3Ls do not fill the missile hardpoints with streaks?

All this to me indicates a need to investigate SRMs and SSRMs.

This can be attributed to the Hard point system more than missiles. If you have missile hard points you will fill them with the most effective missiles possible. As far as the A1 goes, the srm6 is really the best build for it, any other build is best used on the C4.

That being said, missiles have been shown to have inflated damage on certain mechs due to splash damage. Let's see how April 2 affects missiles before we talk about nerfing.

[stjobe]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

See I'm staring at the video and not see it say how much damage was done other then the text. Thats not proof.

The ML does 5 damage. A SSRM-2 does 5 damage (or at least it should).
Yet the first hit (with the ML) takes 3% off the health of the Commando and the second (SSRM-2) takes 9% off.

Either you're postulating that a full beam-duration ML does 1.67 damage, or you'll have to accept that the SSRM-2 in that video does 15 damage instead of 5.

[Dishevel]

Lykaon, on 18 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I would say that the current game reflects that SRMs are a superior weapon system due to the copious amounts of SRM based builds seen in nearly every match.

When a particular weapon is used with such frequency and used as a "boated" weapon when ever possible it may be an indication that SRMs are out of scale with other weapons.

How often do you see a Catapult A1 that isn't using 6 X SRM6s?
Or how many CN-9A Centurions do you see that do not mount tripple SRM6 racks even at the cost of the supposed primary weapon an autocannon?

How many Raven 3Ls do not fill the missile hardpoints with streaks?

All this to me indicates a need to investigate SRMs and SSRMs.

6xSRM4s with Artemis here.
I do not alpha with them either. I have them on chain fire.
Awesome fun.

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

The ML does 5 damage. A SSRM-2 does 5 damage (or at least it should).
Yet the first hit (with the ML) takes 3% off the health of the Commando and the second (SSRM-2) takes 9% off.

Either you're postulating that a full beam-duration ML does 1.67 damage, or you'll have to accept that the SSRM-2 in that video does 15 damage instead of 5.

I'm saying, where do you see the 3% and 9%, there is not indication of the damage they've taken. Not even a paper doll, I'll admit maybe I'm blind and not seeing it. But seriously I see no indication. And as I've said my own experience does not show it. So maybe its a situational bug.

but in general I have to point out that it's wrong to assume the SSRM would do 5 damage because we know the splash damage is additive, so you assume the splash hits both sides. it's just a question of how much that splash should be (which the devs have conveniently not chosen to tell us, no not a conspiracy just being careful on their part).

But agina, in live my SRM's didn't do the damage they did in TG, its plainly ovbious, and 36 missiles did an extra -4- damage. So again my point is, its at worst situational. Which means you can't claim any possible imbalance purely on this bug.

[Joe Mallad]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

If you wait two weeks, missile splash damage will be gone (splash damage that made a single SSRM do 12.9 damage to a Commando, and progressively less the heavier the 'mech).

It will be removed in the April 2nd patch.

not saying you're wrong but how can you tell that with splash, a single SSRM does 12.9 damage? Did you mean 2.9?