36 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm saying, where do you see the 3% and 9%, there is not indication of the damage they've taken.

Look over the head of the 'mech, to the left of the name. It tells you the health percentage (just like when you press 'Q' in game).

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 March 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

not saying you're wrong but how can you tell that with splash, a single SSRM does 12.9 damage? Did you mean 2.9?

No, 12.9. See this post by Paul: http://mwomercs.com/...18#entry2060318

Choice quote:

Paul Inouye, on 14 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

The Raven 3L has just fired 1 volley of 2 x S-SRM2 at the Commando 1B. As you can see, the amount of damage done to the Commando does not make sense. There is a total of 51.5 armor being stripped off the Commando. We've been able to reproduce this repeatedly and we're getting an average damage of 12.9 per missile. Quite a bit higher than the intended 2.5 damage per missile plus splash damage.

Edited by stjobe, 18 March 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Paula Fry]

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Look over the head of the 'mech, to the left of the name. It tells you the health percentage (just like when you press 'Q' in game).

Fair enough, never pay attention to that myself. I'm curious why the ML's shot the legs and the SSRM the torso though. For all I know that percentage is more heavily balanced to the torsos. I'm not trying to say its all BS. I'm just saying its a completely different set of results then I've seen in actual combat, ie situational.

BTW, going back to them removing it. I was just thinking, ECM is borked and they have said they are working on a change/fix, but they've not removed it have they. They are removing splash damage for a much bigger reason.

but anyway, we all will see for sure on the 2nd, personaly I don't expect a drastic change, but unless there is one I'm still maintaining missile damage does need to be reduced.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 March 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

not saying you're wrong but how can you tell that with splash, a single SSRM does 12.9 damage? Did you mean 2.9?

12.9 was a figure brought up by the devs, based on the testing that they did.

[stjobe]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Fair enough, never pay attention to that myself. I'm curious why the ML's shot the legs and the SSRM the torso though. For all I know that percentage is more heavily balanced to the torsos. I'm not trying to say its all BS. I'm just saying its a completely different set of results then I've seen in actual combat, ie situational.

A percentage is a percentage. I'd have been happier if he'd shot the torso with the ML as well, but it doesn't really change the fact that the ML took 3% off and the SSRM-2 took 9% off.

In the Training Grounds, where the damage apparently is inflated, I killed a COM-1B with 2 salvos of a SSRM-2, and a single salvo of a SRM-6.

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

BTW, going back to them removing it. I was just thinking, ECM is borked and they have said they are working on a change/fix, but they've not removed it have they. They are removing splash damage for a much bigger reason.

but anyway, we all will see for sure on the 2nd, personaly I don't expect a drastic change, but unless there is one I'm still maintaining missile damage does need to be reduced.

I don't expect you to read that mega-thread, but do read the post I linked from Paul. They're pulling splash damage because it's badly broken and does multiples of the intended damage, for all missiles.

The effect doesn't seem as pronounced on LRMs though, so those may see a lesser effect come the 2nd.

Oh, and a SplatCat will still do 90 alphas.

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

A percentage is a percentage. I'd have been happier if he'd shot the torso with the ML as well, but it doesn't really change the fact that the ML took 3% off and the SSRM-2 took 9% off.

In the Training Grounds, where the damage apparently is inflated, I killed a COM-1B with 2 salvos of a SSRM-2, and a single salvo of a SRM-6.


I don't expect you to read that mega-thread, but do read the post I linked from Paul. They're pulling splash damage because it's badly broken and does multiples of the intended damage, for all missiles.

The effect doesn't seem as pronounced on LRMs though, so those may see a lesser effect come the 2nd.

Oh, and a SplatCat will still do 90 alphas.

A percentage is a percentage, but that doesn't mean its reporting what we expect it to is my point. When my own MULTIPLE experiences do not tell me the same thing as that single test then obviously I will be skeptical.

And actually I have read that thread quite extensively including Pauls post and actually posted myself. I had just stopped in to check the forums while my game patched because I hadn't been playing for a month or so. I said in the post while reading that thread that I didn't think I would start playing after all. But I was bored and played anyway, turns out I've not seen any real indication of it. The only suspition I have that it might be having an effect is that my SRM's get the vast majority of my kills. But considering I want the damage reduced anyway that's not a real massive read flag that its all due to a bug. Not to mention Pauls post says the extreme damage inflation is only in TG thanks to it being all messed up. But he did mention they think it exists in live as well but had no actual number to tell us that it really was, sounded more like a theory to me.

Edit: Actually as I said the splatacat will do at least a 94 alpha . Was on a trenchbucket or cent, don't remember exactly.

Edited by M4rtyr, 18 March 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[jakucha]

zhajin, on 18 March 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

once splash is gone i think the values will be good. if they bring splash back they may need to tone it back a bit.

They're only removing it until they fix it, at least that's what I read. It wouldn't make much sense if missiles did no splash damage after all.

Edited by jakucha, 18 March 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[stjobe]

M4rtyr, on 18 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

A percentage is a percentage, but that doesn't mean its reporting what we expect it to is my point. When my own MULTIPLE experiences do not tell me the same thing as that single test then obviously I will be skeptical.

Sceptical is good, but since you've read that thread you'll also know that it's one of the more well-tested bugs in the history of MWO. It's real, and it's in the live game.

However, it affects light 'mechs the most (and the Commando more than any other light), so if you only pilot assaults you may not have noticed. For us Commando pilots though, it's very obvious even in the live game.

[Iron Hyena]

Clay Pigeon, on 18 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Reduce SRM, SSRM and LRM damage to their canon values.

As time progresses and we start getting even more powerful launchers (eg SSRM6, clanLRM20), missiles will start being even more hair-pullingly OP.

Please preemptively address this.

Instead of demanding they change their entire game, why not change your tactics?

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I think it is way too early to adjust missile damage. And the issue brought up in the training grounds only affects newer, smaller, more detailed models, for instance I bet the the Jenner is unaffected.

The current best solution to missile damage would be a buff to the little used AMS.
Currently AMS does X damage per second to incomming missiles so bigger volleys make AMS less effective, when in reality having more targets in the air is going to make AMS more effective, fewer bullets miss.

I would like to see ams be more effective the longer it is continously firing (for those LRM20 being shot out of NARC tubes), and to do more damage to large clusters of missiles Maybe AMS modules, like a Flak module for large clusters (small damage wide area) and a laser targeting AMS module for streams (high damage, rapid fire, single target). As long as AMS is buffed I'll be happy.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 18 March 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

Until ECM is 'canon', there is no reason Missiles (the weapon system far and away the most handicapped by ECM) should receive any form of 'canon' adjustment. Now, if you are calling for Guardian ECM to also be -strictly- according to the rules established for it in 'canon' hand-in-hand with your suggestion and tied to it, I would consider your request as possibly worth looking at.

And, of course, the 'canon' cannon can be pointed at everything in MWO, if we really want to play that card. VRT? Not 'canon'. All weapons should fire at the same rate. Double heat sinks? Double heat dissipation. Armor? No more than 'canon'...none of this doubling.

[Commander Kobold]

Clay Pigeon, on 18 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Reduce SRM, SSRM and LRM damage to their canon values.

As time progresses and we start getting even more powerful launchers (eg SSRM6, clanLRM20), missiles will start being even more hair-pullingly OP.

Please preemptively address this.

only if they get a speed boost and ECM returns to its TT status

[M4rtyr]

stjobe, on 18 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Sceptical is good, but since you've read that thread you'll also know that it's one of the more well-tested bugs in the history of MWO. It's real, and it's in the live game.

However, it affects light 'mechs the most (and the Commando more than any other light), so if you only pilot assaults you may not have noticed. For us Commando pilots though, it's very obvious even in the live game.

Mostly tested in TG however which I also tested myself in TG and saw the difference first hand.

I mainly use my 4SP and my experience isn't what I get hit with, but like I said, I hit a damagedcommando point blank with 2 SRM6's. Something that easily should have destroyed him flat out since commandos are most heavily effected. He was yellow everywhere when I hit him. 10 missiles (assuming a couple missed high from the animation), he ran off with red CT armor and orange side torsos. which is a MASSIVE difference from the TG test results of 6 missiles to the commando.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Missiles already have a nerf coming. They will do a lot less damage to most targets than they do currently. The Cheesepult tears are going to be delicious; can't wait.

Edited by Bluten, 18 March 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[M4rtyr]

Thontor, on 18 March 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

The Jenner is most certainly affected... not as much as a Commando, but affected nonetheless

missiles are doing more damage to all mechs than the firepower meter would have you believe. that is, more than 2.5 damage per SRM and more than 1.8 damage per LRM.

Yeah more then those numbers because of splash damage, thats doesn't mean the exagerated splash damage bug is part of it however.

Amazing how many people read a few posts and act like its pure fact.

I duel Ravens a ton of times in my 4SP and gotten really good at hitting them with my SRMs. The -FASTEST- kill i ever made on a raven was 3 full on hits with my 2SRM6's, thats 108 missiles. PLUS my 4 ML's. Now granted the Raven is much less effected then the other lights thats a **** load of damage.

I'm looking forward to the removal of splash damage really and wish it never comes back. But I think this splash bug has been blown WAY our of proportion. Everyone assumes missiles are doing twice the damage they should just because of a FEW extreme cases with a FEW mechs. When in fact most of the mechs were very close to that 2.5 per SRM mark and 1 or 2 was actually LESS then 2.5 damage in the TG tests.

[Sheraf]

Bluten, on 18 March 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Missiles already have a nerf coming. They will do a lot less damage to most targets than they do currently. The Cheesepult tears are going to be delicious; can't wait.

I think when that happens, you will see more dangerous balance mech builds enter the battle field

[XIRUSPHERE]

Everyone talks about the splash patch like it's going to offer relief from LRM. The only thing it will do is turn up the volume of whining as these people will continue to die horribly to people who use Artemis+Tag+Los. Splash is being fixed, not being taken out of the equation. Missile damage should face no reductions as LRM are only as deadly as you allow them to be. Even if they nerfed it into oblivion people would still die to them in droves, you could cut the damage in half and I guarantee the same people who sit in the open and stand still while they get hosed will stick around long enough for me to finish the job and whine later.