12 replies to this topic

[Bad Karma 308]

"According to Intel’s current plans, you’ll find dual- and quad-core LGA 1150 models with the GT2 graphics configuration sporting 20 execution units. There will also be dual- and quad-core socketed rPGA-based models for the mobile space, featuring the same graphics setup. Everything in the table above is LGA 1150, though. All of those models share support for two channels of DDR3-1600 at 1.5 V and 800 MHz minimum core frequencies. They also share a 16-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller, AVX2 support, and AES-NI support. Interestingly, four of the listed models do not support Intel's new Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX). We're not sure why Intel would want to differentiate its products with a feature intended to handle locking more efficiently, but that appears to be what it's doing. "

"So, now enthusiasts have a general sense for how Haswell will compare to high-end Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge-E, and Ivy Bridge processors. You probably could have guessed this before even looking at our benchmarks, but the pre-production Core i7-4770K is in the neighborhood of 7 to 13% faster than Core i7-3770K in today’s threaded workloads. That’s pretty consistent with the evolution from Sandy to Ivy Bridge, even as the flagship Haswell-based part keeps its thermal ceiling under 84 W. "

"We know from our talks with motherboard vendors at this year’s CES that you’ll be able to buy Haswell in LGA 1150 trim, but that its successor, Broadwell, is going to be BGA-only (meaning it’ll ship soldered onto motherboards). Now, it’s possible that Skylake, the architecture to follow Broadwell, will see Intel re-introduce an upgradeable interface. However, Core i7-4770K is going to get a lot of attention, if only because of its position as the last flagship before we’re subject to less flexibility. "

Looks like the BGA specter is not only back again but now it had been confirmed for Broadwell.......

Read full full preview : http://www.tomshardw...nce,3461-8.html

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 18 March 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[DocBach]

Meh, I'll save the money from a new motherboard and CPU and upgrade my 680's to 780's, unless there's the same negligible increase in performance I'd see over swapping out to the 4th gen CPU.

[Chiyeko Kuramochi]

Yeah I stick to my 3770K not going to waste 500+ euro on a new CPU and MB.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Chiyeko Kuramochi, on 19 March 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Yeah I stick to my 3770K not going to waste 500+ euro on a new CPU and MB.

This is what I'm using, Intel 3770k. Won't need anything newer for quite a long time, especially if I just OC the hell out of it when it becomes old. I hear this can safely clock up to around 5ghz with more cooling. But atm it destroys everything just using its own stock TurboBoost.

[Vulpesveritas]

Bad Karma 308, on 18 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

"According to Intel’s current plans, you’ll find dual- and quad-core LGA 1150 models with the GT2 graphics configuration sporting 20 execution units. There will also be dual- and quad-core socketed rPGA-based models for the mobile space, featuring the same graphics setup. Everything in the table above is LGA 1150, though. All of those models share support for two channels of DDR3-1600 at 1.5 V and 800 MHz minimum core frequencies. They also share a 16-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller, AVX2 support, and AES-NI support. Interestingly, four of the listed models do not support Intel's new Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX). We're not sure why Intel would want to differentiate its products with a feature intended to handle locking more efficiently, but that appears to be what it's doing. "

"So, now enthusiasts have a general sense for how Haswell will compare to high-end Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge-E, and Ivy Bridge processors. You probably could have guessed this before even looking at our benchmarks, but the pre-production Core i7-4770K is in the neighborhood of 7 to 13% faster than Core i7-3770K in today’s threaded workloads. That’s pretty consistent with the evolution from Sandy to Ivy Bridge, even as the flagship Haswell-based part keeps its thermal ceiling under 84 W. "

"We know from our talks with motherboard vendors at this year’s CES that you’ll be able to buy Haswell in LGA 1150 trim, but that its successor, Broadwell, is going to be BGA-only (meaning it’ll ship soldered onto motherboards). Now, it’s possible that Skylake, the architecture to follow Broadwell, will see Intel re-introduce an upgradeable interface. However, Core i7-4770K is going to get a lot of attention, if only because of its position as the last flagship before we’re subject to less flexibility. "

Looks like the BGA specter is not only back again but now it had been confirmed for Broadwell.......

Read full full preview : http://www.tomshardw...nce,3461-8.html

Whelp AMD gets to keep the hobbyist crowd maybe then? I guess we'll see, won't we. Though Intel will probably keep LGA for their flagship superchips on the extreme profiling for enthusiasts I would think.

[Chiyeko Kuramochi]

Bluten, on 19 March 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

This is what I'm using, Intel 3770k. Won't need anything newer for quite a long time, especially if I just OC the hell out of it when it becomes old. I hear this can safely clock up to around 5ghz with more cooling. But atm it destroys everything just using its own stock TurboBoost.

I have mine at 4.5 that is like only changing the boost value from 40 to 45 and nothing else works just fine and runs cool under the h100. Didn't expect to replace it anytime soon anyhow

[WardenWolf]

I doubt Intel is going to move to a non-upgradable CPU platform on *desktop* processors any time soon. It just doesn't make sense: motherboard makers aren't going to want to effectively act as resellers for Intel processors, or deal with multiple SKUs of their motherboards for each CPU speed they want to offer. This rumor came up when Haswell was far off, and turned out to be wrong... and it will be again.

With that said, Haswell is looking like a nice upgrade from Ivy Bridge - though as many here have pointed out there is really no need for anything better than an Ivy Bridge (or even Sandy Bridge) quad-core CPU for gaming. In fact, to anyone looking for a gaming CPU upgrade, I would advise the Core i5 line instead of the i7. The main feature the i7 gains is Hyperthreading, which doesn't help gaming at all. Now if you are also into recording / streaming your games, or other forms of media editing, the i7 can offer a nice boost... but otherwise, save money by getting the i5 instead and spend that savings on a faster video card

[Corvus Antaka]

itsd really wierd..so now in the future every motherboard we buy will come with a soldered on CPU? Seems totally crazy really, I cant see how this will do intel any favours at the store level.

[Catamount]

Haswell isn't much of an upgrade over Ivy Bridge at all. It's small and incremental. But I mean, that's fine. That's just what we get these days. If anything, I'm happy that there's no reason to upgrade, and there won't be for a long, long time, as I'd like to keep my 3570k (or at worst, upgrade to a 3770k if threaded workloads suddenly become a big thing) for a long time to come, and that's exactly what I think we're going to see.

Even taking the high-end optimistic figure, and expecting a 13% increase with every generation of CPU, even Skymont, which should be out in 2016 or 2017 and is four generations down the road, would only be a moderate upgrade over Ivy Bridge, since 1.13^4 is still only 1.63, which means IB will still be ~60% as fast as the high end chips of that generation. At that rate, I could probably stay on LGA1155 until 2018 or 2019. Frankly that sounds great to me. I also don't expect things to even advance that fast, given the problems small processes are leading to, which Tom's alluded to with Ivy Bridge's lack of overclocking capability compared to Sandy Bridge (and not just because of the IHS problem). Physically making a small chip is proving to be easy; actually giving it enough voltage to reach higher clocks than what it's replacing is another story, and that's a problem we're seeing on the GPU and CPU side of things.

Edited by Catamount, 19 March 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[Bad Karma 308]

Vulpesveritas, on 19 March 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Whelp AMD gets to keep the hobbyist crowd maybe then? I guess we'll see, won't we. Though Intel will probably keep LGA for their flagship superchips on the extreme profiling for enthusiasts I would think.

Vulps you're alive! I was getting worried you'd fallen off the face of the earth.

You know, if AMD can catch their breath and re-energize when Broadwell hits then that fact may well put them back in , or on top, of the gaming market. Here's crossing our fingers....

WardenWolf, on 19 March 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I doubt Intel is going to move to a non-upgradable CPU platform on *desktop* processors any time soon.

The problem is that this happened accidentally with Haswell went it was debuted. At Intel's Developer convention they came out demonstrating a BGA board in their demo systems. An when they were asked about it they were mum on the subject. Speculation and outrage ensued until they came out and stated that those initial CPUs were engineering samples and were intended mainly for the laptop market.

However, this one is different. Intel has already come out and stated that Broadwell will be BGA, yet they also hinted that there are other possibilities.

As Vulps mentioned, BGA CPUs could well be intended for mainstream system builders like Dell and everyday users in the mid range. While enthusiast flavored parts would still be culled from their XEON line and still offered in a PGA basis. Think 1155 vs 2011 parts.

Or as a example. If you're building a machine then the low and mid range selection for Broadwell would be similar to your current 1155 Sandy/Ivy Bridge, only BGA means your CPU and Motherboard are sold as one and are not upgradeable. The enthusiast realm would be like jumping into the socket 2011 X79 chipsets with Sandy & Ivy Bridge. Pricier but far more capability and of course upgradeable.

But Intel has done something similar with BGA (type CPUs) before. Anyone remember how the Pentium III slot 1 design worked..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_1

From what I've seen and been told at the conferences, is that with the huge trend toward heterogeneous CPU cores, is that the shear numbers of possibilities mixing CPU cores with GPU/RISC/APU/ATOM/ARM...(or even some of the newer SoC) etc. Would mean that the Pin Grid Arrays couldn't keep up with the changes. MB makers would have to design and develop huge inventories of boards just to chase the wildly varying CPU designs.

Edited by Bad Karma 308, 19 March 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Lord of All]

Bad Karma 308, on 18 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

"According to Intel’s current plans, you’ll find dual- and quad-core LGA 1150 models with the GT2 graphics configuration sporting 20 execution units. There will also be dual- and quad-core socketed rPGA-based models for the mobile space, featuring the same graphics setup. Everything in the table above is LGA 1150, though. All of those models share support for two channels of DDR3-1600 at 1.5 V and 800 MHz minimum core frequencies. They also share a 16-lane PCI Express 3.0 controller, AVX2 support, and AES-NI support. Interestingly, four of the listed models do not support Intel's new Transactional Synchronization Extensions (TSX). We're not sure why Intel would want to differentiate its products with a feature intended to handle locking more efficiently, but that appears to be what it's doing. "

"So, now enthusiasts have a general sense for how Haswell will compare to high-end Sandy Bridge, Sandy Bridge-E, and Ivy Bridge processors. You probably could have guessed this before even looking at our benchmarks, but the pre-production Core i7-4770K is in the neighborhood of 7 to 13% faster than Core i7-3770K in today’s threaded workloads. That’s pretty consistent with the evolution from Sandy to Ivy Bridge, even as the flagship Haswell-based part keeps its thermal ceiling under 84 W. "

"We know from our talks with motherboard vendors at this year’s CES that you’ll be able to buy Haswell in LGA 1150 trim, but that its successor, Broadwell, is going to be BGA-only (meaning it’ll ship soldered onto motherboards). Now, it’s possible that Skylake, the architecture to follow Broadwell, will see Intel re-introduce an upgradeable interface. However, Core i7-4770K is going to get a lot of attention, if only because of its position as the last flagship before we’re subject to less flexibility. "

Looks like the BGA specter is not only back again but now it had been confirmed for Broadwell.......

Read full full preview : http://www.tomshardw...nce,3461-8.html

I have visions of baked Mobo's (reflow)

[Catamount]

Bad Karma 308, on 19 March 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

From what I've seen and been told at the conferences, is that with the huge trend toward heterogeneous CPU cores, is that the shear numbers of possibilities mixing CPU cores with GPU/RISC/APU/ATOM/ARM...(or even some of the newer SoC) etc. Would mean that the Pin Grid Arrays couldn't keep up with the changes. MB makers would have to design and develop huge inventories of boards just to chase the wildly varying CPU designs.

Yeah I've heard this argument before, and it does seem to have some merit. Although, in fairness, it'll be hard enough for software companies to chase all these types of hardware around to take advantage of them anyways. Remember how long it took before basic GPGPU became a reality? Had it not been for Ageia, who's technology basically became CUDA, as I understand it, it would have taken even longer.

[Urisk]

I am running a i7-2700k based system as my main computer and have no interest upgrading it to a 3770k let alone the 4770k which would cost me around 500+ dollars. Small increments of 10-20 percent performance increase aren't worth another investment, on top of that the 4770k isn't a huge jump in TDP from its predecessor. If Haswell was a huge energy saver cpu I would be interested in making a server out of an i3 part + mainboard but as it stands haswell isn't going to save me much money over ivy bridge or even an AMD APU. At least if I make a APU based server it won't cost me a crap ton of cash.

If people are thinking about upgrading from an old cpu like a core duo 2, I think this would be a tremendous upgrade however.

Edited by Urisk, 19 March 2013 - 05:23 PM.