71 replies to this topic

[Dauphni]

Omni 13, on 20 March 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

its not better it's exactly the same (also on the C4 and A1)

It's better, but marginally. It used to be 140°, now it's 144° (120° + 20% with the elite doubling). Yet even people who should know better are actually saying the Catapult is completely unplayable now, which is completely untrue.

[Pale Jackal]

Uite Dauphni, on 20 March 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Yet even people who should know better are actually saying the Catapult is completely unplayable now, which is completely untrue.

I am in no way saying the C1 is unplayable. My point is that the nerf was unnecessary, and that they simply made the Catapult chassis more generic. It used to have something that made it different from other 'mechs. It seems to be going in the opposite direction of PGI's stated goals of making each variant or chassis unique.

[Nightfangs]

Why the ******* hell would they nerf the C1?
Why not simply remove the founder mechs alltogether and call it "quirking".

[Deathlike]

C'mon guys.

1) There was a patch a month or two ago, which "fixed" the twist X bonus for various mechs. The Catapult was one of those mechs that did not get the bonus prior to that patch. After that patch, it got the bonus it did not get before.

2) This nerf is simply a corresponding reaction to the behavior to efficiency fix. That is it.

The fact that people simply don't understand this is insane.

[Solidussnake]

I'm glad it was nerfed. My ability to kite mechs was pathetic. Why was it the only mech that could effectively run away while destorying my enemey and not missing a beat while doing it. Now it feels like a real mech not some cookie cutter "look I can run away while still owning you" kitty mech.

Edited by Solidussnake, 20 March 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[NRP]

I was tearing it up last night in my C1. Doesn't feel nerfed at all.

[Barghest Whelp]

Pale Jackal, on 20 March 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Slightly less speed? The TBT can go about 20 kph (or 25%) faster, since if you upgrade the engine above a 300XL, it's very tonnage inefficient. Given that LRMs absolutely do not work within 180m, I think an advantage in speed is pretty important.

I have experimented with many configurations, and I have used one similar to yours, 2 ERLL, 2 ML, 2 SRM6. I have used 2 ERPPC, 2 ML ; I have used 2 SSRM2 2 LL 2 ML ; I have used 2 LRM5 2 LL 2 ML ; I have used 2 SRM6 4 Mpulse. I used 2 PPC, 2 ML in closed beta before DHS were released.

You mention that you do not use the torso twist, but with your 2 ERPPC configuration, you really should be. Any time you have the advantage in terms of ranged weaponry, your C1 should be running away and hammering them with ERPPCs.

Yes, you can put an XL engine in a catapult as well. No matter which way you put it, the cat has 15 tons more wieght to play with.

ERPPC's are long range sniper weapons. I dunno about you, but when I'm sniping I tend to make damn sure I'm as far away from my enemy as possible, at all times. If I need to run away because the enemy is getting too close, then I have failed.

Then again, that's why I put the 2 mpl and srm 6's on there, as a backup so that I actually have some firepower to make sure they don't want to stay close to me. And lrm's? Are you serious? You need that extra torso twist for the trainig wheel weapon? You need training wheels on your training wheels? Seriously?

LRM's have a range of 1km, and you don't even need to see your enemy in order to hit with them. If that's too hard for you, then I suggest you either try using a different weapon system, and if that fails, I suggest you uninstall and do some deep soulsearching before re-installing.

[Pale Jackal]

Deathlike, on 20 March 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

C'mon guys.

1) There was a patch a month or two ago, which "fixed" the twist X bonus for various mechs. The Catapult was one of those mechs that did not get the bonus prior to that patch. After that patch, it got the bonus it did not get before.

2) This nerf is simply a corresponding reaction to the behavior to efficiency fix. That is it.

The fact that people simply don't understand this is insane.

Actually, I was unaware of this, and I do read patch notes.

However, it leads us to the following situation: did the developers only intend to nerf the K2? If you want to say that the developers DON'T think the A1 is a problem, and that this adjustment was simply bringing everything into line, I would be OK with that.

However, given the large number of complaints about both the A1 and K2, I would assume that both were intended to be nerfed, which begs the question why the C1 was nerfed along with it.

Furthermore, I'd be perfectly OK with the situation if the C1 had a torso twist of 130 degrees.

Barghest Whelp, on 20 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Then again, that's why I put the 2 mpl and srm 6's on there, as a backup so that I actually have some firepower to make sure they don't want to stay close to me. And lrm's? Are you serious? You need that extra torso twist for the trainig wheel weapon? You need training wheels on your training wheels? Seriously?

LRM's have a range of 1km, and you don't even need to see your enemy in order to hit with them. If that's too hard for you, then I suggest you either try using a different weapon system, and if that fails, I suggest you uninstall and do some deep soulsearching before re-installing.

... I use weapons besides LRMs, thanks. Your emotional outburst because I told you that you should take advantage of the C1's torso twist when using your ERPPCs is a little ridiculous.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 20 March 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Deathlike, on 20 March 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

C'mon guys.

1) There was a patch a month or two ago, which "fixed" the twist X bonus for various mechs. The Catapult was one of those mechs that did not get the bonus prior to that patch. After that patch, it got the bonus it did not get before.

2) This nerf is simply a corresponding reaction to the behavior to efficiency fix. That is it.

The fact that people simply don't understand this is insane.

Would buy this IF they now changed the maximum angle while maintaining twist speed. Thing is, they did change the maximum angle but maintained the time needed from lock to lock.
Which actually is a huge additional nerf in twist speed, makes tracking a pain in the *** and plain impossible for faster mediums/lights.
The Cats have hardpoint limitations and hitboxes that are quite unfavorable for brawls either way. The reduced tracking speed now adds to that.
You can compensate by trimming your Cat for a huge alpha, so 1-2 hits suffice to ged rid of any pest. Or you boat LRM only and rely on support for brawls.
Sadly this makes every balanced build just a VERY BAD CHOICE. While i can understand the need for a nerf for the A1 and K2, the other two Variants were designed for a balanced loadout. And now are just sub-par to every other mech out there (if not boated).

I mean, even the Stalker has better tracking now. Seriously working as intended???

Edited by Reptilizer, 20 March 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[Barghest Whelp]

Pale Jackal, on 20 March 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

... I use weapons besides LRMs, thanks. Your emotional outburst because I told you that you should take advantage of the C1's torso twist when using your ERPPCs is a little ridiculous.

Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. I have issues with lrms since the last two patches. Single volleys of lrm's taking down my mech because of one tiny mistake has made me very emotional, and since you mentioned lrms in your previous post you kind got all that rage offloaded on to you, which you certainly did not deserve.

Anyways, ERPPC's seem to work just fine with other mechs, and they don't have the crazy omgwtfbbqpwn torso twist, so I don't really see the big deal. Same goes for lrms actually.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that this just puts it in line with other mechs. No reason why one mech should be better than others. And no, I haven't filed a single complaint against any of the catapults. None of them bother me even the slightest. I was kind of hoping that this would reduce the amount of wine on these forums. After all, I'm starting to become an alchoholic from reading these forums.

Was actually hoping that we could start discussing the issue of lrms, ssrms and srms. But yeah, sorry for the outburst.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I think I've had way too much success with the C1 prior to this patch (will need to retest to see the effectiveness).

[Pale Jackal]

Barghest Whelp, on 20 March 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. I have issues with lrms since the last two patches. Single volleys of lrm's taking down my mech because of one tiny mistake has made me very emotional, and since you mentioned lrms in your previous post you kind got all that rage offloaded on to you, which you certainly did not deserve.
Anyways, ERPPC's seem to work just fine with other mechs, and they don't have the crazy omgwtfbbqpwn torso twist, so I don't really see the big deal. Same goes for lrms actually.
...
Was actually hoping that we could start discussing the issue of lrms, ssrms and srms. But yeah, sorry for the outburst.

No problem, it's not a big deal. It's the internet, after all, and LRMs do seem bugged since the patch.

I guess that, in my thinking, the C1 is not a particularly awesome 'mech. I use it because of its Founder's bonus. If you're brawling, you've got the huge center torso that sticks out so it can easily be hit even when you're sideways.

I suppose its one advantage besides its twist is that it has very few arm actuators allowing you stuff 22 DHS onto the C1 with an XL300. 2 ERPPCs and 2 ML with 22 DHS is fun, but it still runs hot in a brawl.

I mean, if I want to pop-tart with LL or PPCs, I'll use the 3D. The 3D would be my perfect 'mech if it had less arm actuators. If I want to spam SRMs, I'll use the A1 or C4. Others may disagree, but I'd probably use an Awesome or Stalker if I just want to lob huge amounts of LRMs, and I'd probably use the Trebuchet 5J if I want a fast LRM harasser.

Seriously, the only thing that's stopping me from buying a 5J is the thought that if I'm playing a missile boat, I might as well use my Founder's C1. An extra 20kph and an extra medium laser would be mighty nice... don't need armor if they can't catch up to you in the first place.