49 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

If you made it this way, nobody would play the jagermech. Ever. Armor is too valuable in practice

I disagree. The Jagermech would need to be given other advantages to make up for its lack of armor. But I think people would still play it. For example, if the Jagermech could only have 75% of the armor of a Catapult, but also got a bonus reduction to heat generated by ballistic weapons. I really don't think the Devs have explored all the options for making different mech variants unique.

Quote

Making FF Armor add more to the max Armor allowed would be nice.

Horrible idea. Light mechs and some mediums are the only ones that can use FF, and theyre the mechs that dont need more armor. Its heavies and assaults that need more armor because they dont have the speed to escape getting hit.

Edited by Khobai, 20 March 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[RG Notch]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

@Kayudu

The said part is, that people tend to use their "creativity" to basically recreate what is already being done on different chassis, hence negating the point of creating the new chassis. ATM, I would bet 75% oglf Jagers are essentially duplicating the common K2 and DakkaPhract builds.

People don't get that adding armor ain't as simple as bolting on a couple more plates. Not getting into the engineering of how modern armor works, but just how it interests with a mecha actuators, both from mobility and what they were rated to move, is pretty substantial.

Is it harder than say swapping mgs for AC20s? If not lets just cut to removing customization, the rest is just half assing it. It seems some people want diversity by making some mechs non viable, that doesn't lead to diversity that leads to people not taking the non viable chassis. You can hate min maxers all you want but when there's competitive PvP that's what you get. The failure to grasp this is what causes a lot of issues.
Like I said, it seems the no mechlab people are trying to get more creative in removing customization.

[That Guy]

SkyCake, on 19 March 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

where were you during closed beta??? engine limits were absolutely necessary, end of story!

i agree, that the 8r,8q,8t,8v could use 325 max engine limit... but thats about it... 9 SL hunchbacks running around at 130kph was a nightmare!

qft
now just imagine those same hunchies with DHS, medium lasers going 130kph today. or worse SPs with SSRM and ML going 130kph. engine restrictions were one of the best things to happen to MWO

[TheRulesLawyer]

Khobai, on 20 March 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Horrible idea. Light mechs and some mediums are the only ones that can use FF, and theyre the mechs that dont need more armor. Its heavies and assaults that need more armor because they dont have the speed to escape getting hit.

That's not really true. Anyone can use FF now. However FF is a bad choice vs ES since it gives less weight savings. What if your choices were a bit more weight savings or 15% additional armor allowed? That would make the choice between FF and ES more difficult if you only have space to mount one. It would actually balance the choices a bit more relative to eachother.

[Panzerman03]

I'm trying to understand the OP's line of reasoning.

"The Jager can't do anything the CTF-4X doesn't do better. Therefore, NERF THE JAGER."

What?

[Jonathan Paine]

I favor having some armor restrictions for mechs as it would add to mech diversity. On the flip side of the coin, limit how much armor you can strip off as well as a limit per location. No more atlai with no leg armor!

[Lyrik]

How about giving FF for free slots to certain mechs with less hardpoints? And buff FF that it increases internal and equipment hp.

Or diverse the hardpoints to small and large. So you could balance the A1, the 3L and any other boat. But it would make balancing mechs even a greater nightmare.

[Bishop Steiner]

@Khobai

Not, strictly speaking, true. Heavy and assault generally find FF a waste because they only have room usually for one or the other. Endo wins because it's far more bang for the buck, as a weight saver. Making FF actually act as an armor buff, rather than a weak sister weight saver, would actually make FF more useful, potentially, than it is now, to the big boys, as sometimes, I find myself with more weight than I can use. But having my Awesome now able to actually absorb more damage, that opens up new possibilities, and makes FF attractive for some builds and roles.

[Bishop Steiner]

@RG Notch,

Actually, crazy though it may sound, yes. Weapons only affect one location (mind you, in some cases , like mounting a gauss on a Raven, it would be next to structurally impossible to add a weapon half the mass of the mech on one arm, but we will overlook that for now) whereas adding lets say, 50% more armor across the board, affect every single one of the complex joints on a mech. Adding a plate doesn't just magically increase protection by 50%, but you have angles and layers to give max benefit. Go look at the armor on a modern tank. I can assure you, from an engineering standpoint, it is much easier to swP a 75mm cannon for a 120, than increase its overall protection 50% across the board. (and of course, "swapping" san Endo steel internal structure into a mech in the field would be all but impossible, and in fact even at a factory, retrofitting one in would be considered cost ineffective, which is why I personally dislike the option, but again, another story for another post.)

[Psikez]

So you want to make sure the jaegermech never gets used?