228 replies to this topic

[Conraire]

Stomp, on 19 March 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Like Nacon said, you're new, and obviously haven't read the known issues. Missile splash damage is bugged right now, a single missile against smaller mechs, instead of doing something like 2.5, does instead 12 damage, approximately. Only on the smaller chassis though, like Commando, Jenner, Raven, etc., although on a Flame you might feel some effects. Anyway, relax, rant and rave about quitting all you like or not, but the forums are for calm discussion, not flipping out like a ten year old.

No, actually I was running an Awesome 8Q, with MAX armor on all sections. In 1 Volley of 2 LRM 15s, I lost almost ALL front torso armor, and a fair amount of back armor. That was with AMS shooting down missiles. LRMs are only suppose to do 1.8dmg per, not 2.5. Right now, it looks like they're doing closer to 8-10. The 2.5dmg per shot is for SRMs.

So yes, LRMs are broken right now, almost to a point where anyone who's not boating them can't play.

[Sheraf]

raptorak, on 19 March 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Since this latest patch my flame's arms and legs have been falling off in single volleys of LRMs. Some guy standing miles away shooting auto-aim missiles can cripple my mech almost instantly. It is absolutely insane. LRMs were bad enough before but now they are pure evil.

Sure I can stand behind a wall all match, but how long until I am surrounded by 3Ls or in the path of a dakkaphract? I tried maxing my leg armour and it made little difference, I tried putting in an AMS and all that did was add extra damage to my CT when my legs were blown off.

LRMs are a constant annoyance and only fun for the guy firing them. They either need a major nerf to their damage or tracking ability, or the AMS system needs a massive buff.

Got hit by LRM from 1000m away is .... impossible!!!!!

[Nightcrept]

This isn't the splash bug.

Lrm's were never dealing as much damage you are describing. Remember the bug has been around for more then six months.
If your taking massive amounts of sudden damage from lrms it's a new bug.

[Jakob Knight]

Conraire, on 19 March 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

So yes, LRMs are broken right now, almost to a point where anyone who's not boating them can't play.

Welcome to the world of LRM players since ECM was put in. Guess it isn't so 'balanced' when the shoe is on the other foot, eh?

[Kaarde]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

And LRMs shouldn't be affected in the least by ECM. But, that's what the devs have decided should be the ultimate immunity shield against LRMs, so that's what it is. Based on the fact that the devs are not going to change this, how else do you make LRMs worthwhile to mount on your mech except to make sure that the very few times you get to fire them, they -hurt- in direct proportion to the number of times other weapons get to be used?

The problem is that if you want LRMs to be on the level of other weapons, you need to make them on the level of other weapons. If you want LRMs to have monumental challenges to their use, then you have to accept monumental effects when they are used. Anything else is just nonsensical.

So you boat LRM's and are enjoying the fact that they are bugged at the moment. Thats what I'm reading from this.

In answer to your question, I have no problem with LRM's doing damage that they are assigned to do. Currently they aren't and it shows by the amount of them being lobbed around today and the very high damage scores being put in by said boats at the end of the match.

I'm not asking for them to be nerfed to oblivion or made impossible to use. I'd like them to be working as intended. As it stands unless you hug a wall a volley or two is going to take you out. By your lights we should all be carrying ECM and LRM and not much else.

[Stealthsfury]

The matches absolutely blow now. LRMs everywhere plus ELO and no grouping other then 4 or 8 means time for something else. I hope next patch has something meaningful, this is absolutely horrid.

[Accident]

Yeah it is either boat LRMs right now, or don't play. I guess maybe a light with ECM....

-Accident

[Mawai]

LRMs have not changed this patch ... they haven't changed in months.

The change this patch is that everyone is playing a Jaeger mech so there is far less ECM on the field.

This lets the real over-powered nature of LRMs and SSRMs show through.

I just finished a match in which I roasted a hunchback in two volleys of LRMs. I ended the match with 1215 damage in my 2 x LRM15 Artemis+ TAG Catapult C1. I would say from my personal experience that they are clearly overpowered.

Hopefully the removal of splash damage will nerf all missiles sufficiently that PGI will then be able to properly implement ECM.

Requiring ECM to stop over-powered weapons is just bad design since folks will get bored of playing the few mechs that can field ECM and will either quit because they can't be competitive in anything but ECM mechs or will switch to LRMs and hope there is no ECM on the field ... then get bored again with the LRMs and quit. The ECM counter to over-powered missiles just leads to long term frustration and lack of player retention ... In my opinion, in order for folks to want to continue playing they have to have a good time in whatever mech they choose to play ... ballistics, energy, missiles ... they all need to be useful and effective ... without any being overpowered the way missiles are currently due (at least in part) to the effect of splash damage.

Anyway ... we will see how it goes ...

[Jakob Knight]

Kaarde, on 19 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

So you boat LRM's and are enjoying the fact that they are bugged at the moment. Thats what I'm reading from this.

In answer to your question, I have no problem with LRM's doing damage that they are assigned to do. Currently they aren't and it shows by the amount of them being lobbed around today and the very high damage scores being put in by said boats at the end of the match.

I'm not asking for them to be nerfed to oblivion or made impossible to use. I'd like them to be working as intended. As it stands unless you hug a wall a volley or two is going to take you out. By your lights we should all be carrying ECM and LRM and not much else.

No, I don't actually enjoy the current state of LRMs. That is the whole point. But there is no proposal to 'fix' them, but only send them back into the oblivion you claim not to want to see them in. There is no associated adjustment to ECM to coincide with the requested fix to their damage, just a general cry of 'LRMs are dangerous! Fix this now!'

To repeat: If you want LRMs to be unusable 3/5ths of the time, then you have to accept that they do far more than any other unhindered weapon when they -are- used. Right now, all I see are calls to return the LRMs to 'normal' damage and -keep- them at 3/5th uselessness as well. That's simply pushing them back into non-usability.

If I am enjoying anything, it's how all those who laughed when LRM players complained long and hard how ECM made the game unplayable for them are now crying buckets when they are the ones who 'might as well not play'. But the truth is that the system is broken, and the people in threads like this aren't interested in fixing it but only maintaining the problems they like.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 19 March 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Accident]

Only non usable time for LRMs is inside 180. As it stands now, just get a friend with LRMs to stand 300 meters away from you. Someone attacks you, the other guy shoots him, and vice versa.

-Accident

[wolf74]

I will support an LRM drop in damage once ecm LOS no-lockon is removed.

[Kaarde]

I never said that I want them pushed into uselessness..you came up with that. I stated that I wanted them working as they were intended. Doing the proper damage that they were meant to, and not killing mechs off like armor was a mere fashion statement instead of protection.

I've seen plenty of LRM usage before this patch even with ECM around. If you find them not to be useful 3/5ths of the time then I don't know what to do for you. Others seem to have been able to use them effectively.

What ever fix for ECM you are looking to get out of your discussion with me isn't likely to be gained through this. At first I hated ECM and the bubble that it provided. But like others I learned to adapt through it. Truth be told I don't run light mechs, nor do I run SSRM's, no mechs I own can mount ECM, and only a few of my builds use LRM's as I tend to prefer brawling.

To recap..I do not want LRM's made into the missle version of machine guns. I have a problem with the way they are broken currently leading most people to be boating them to take advantage of this. No where did I ever bring ECM into the converstaion and nor do I care to continue walking in circles with you on this.

[Rykoo]

WHAT THE HOLY FUC***G SH*T IS GOING ON WITH THE 2+ DAMAGE PER MISSILE PGI?! YOU WANNA HOT FIX THIS NOW PLZ? Yes im talking in caps because this is bloody REDICULOUS! FIX IT FFS!

[Lightfoot]

I always felt MWO LRMs did too much splash damage and not enough point damage so if they turn that way, good, but make sure they do reasonable damage. If players just run across the open range at an LRM focused mech, they are too weak. That should always be certain defeat.

[Jakob Knight]

Mawai, on 19 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

LRMs have not changed this patch ... they haven't changed in months.

The change this patch is that everyone is playing a Jaeger mech so there is far less ECM on the field.

This lets the real over-powered nature of LRMs and SSRMs show through.

I just finished a match in which I roasted a hunchback in two volleys of LRMs. I ended the match with 1215 damage in my 2 x LRM15 Artemis+ TAG Catapult C1. I would say from my personal experience that they are clearly overpowered.

Hopefully the removal of splash damage will nerf all missiles sufficiently that PGI will then be able to properly implement ECM.

Requiring ECM to stop over-powered weapons is just bad design since folks will get bored of playing the few mechs that can field ECM and will either quit because they can't be competitive in anything but ECM mechs or will switch to LRMs and hope there is no ECM on the field ... then get bored again with the LRMs and quit. The ECM counter to over-powered missiles just leads to long term frustration and lack of player retention ... In my opinion, in order for folks to want to continue playing they have to have a good time in whatever mech they choose to play ... ballistics, energy, missiles ... they all need to be useful and effective ... without any being overpowered the way missiles are currently due (at least in part) to the effect of splash damage.

Anyway ... we will see how it goes ...

The flaw in your analysis is that LRMs were not OP before ECM was put in. They were pretty much being outrun by light mechs and their damage was average due to the large amount of cover and the other counters to them that were effective in controlling their use. When ECM was put in, it decimated LRM use because all of the counters and the light mech immunity were retained on top of this. Then the light mech ability to outrun LRMs were fixed, the general damage was upped, and other changes were instituted in a vain attempt to make them somewhat useful.

In short, ECM was not put in because LRMs were OP, but because the devs wanted to completely eliminate them from most play. If anything, the arguments at the time were that Streaks were OP.

[Jakob Knight]

Accident, on 19 March 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

Only non usable time for LRMs is inside 180. As it stands now, just get a friend with LRMs to stand 300 meters away from you. Someone attacks you, the other guy shoots him, and vice versa.

-Accident

No. You cannot use LRMs outside of 200m either (check the stats for ECM, and you will note you cannot lock onto an ECM-protected unit outside of 200m...which means no LRMs).

As to your statement, it reveals a lack of understanding. How is that other guy going to shoot his LRMs when the enemy's other guy is also standing next to him, jamming him with ECM?

The fact is that any solution requiring two people to overcome one when the number of players on each team is equal is, by definition, a solution based on imbalance and lack of sustainability.

[Dagger6T6]

I don't know LRMs seem to be coring the crap out of stuff right now... something feels off from the last patch.

The splash damage has been ongoing for a while, even though it recently just came to light.

Something else seems to be up, but i can't be positive

[riverslq]

don't bother complaining
the thread will be moved to off-topic so the devs won't get offended by your accusations.

Mawai, on 19 March 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

LRMs have not changed this patch ... they haven't changed in months.

The change this patch is that everyone is playing a Jaeger mech so there is far less ECM on the field.

This lets the real over-powered nature of LRMs and SSRMs show through.

I just finished a match in which I roasted a hunchback in two volleys of LRMs. I ended the match with 1215 damage in my 2 x LRM15 Artemis+ TAG Catapult C1. I would say from my personal experience that they are clearly overpowered.

Hopefully the removal of splash damage will nerf all missiles sufficiently that PGI will then be able to properly implement ECM.

Requiring ECM to stop over-powered weapons is just bad design since folks will get bored of playing the few mechs that can field ECM and will either quit because they can't be competitive in anything but ECM mechs or will switch to LRMs and hope there is no ECM on the field ... then get bored again with the LRMs and quit. The ECM counter to over-powered missiles just leads to long term frustration and lack of player retention ... In my opinion, in order for folks to want to continue playing they have to have a good time in whatever mech they choose to play ... ballistics, energy, missiles ... they all need to be useful and effective ... without any being overpowered the way missiles are currently due (at least in part) to the effect of splash damage.

Anyway ... we will see how it goes ...

No.
Just No.

[Treckin]

Jakob Knight, on 19 March 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

LRMs don't need a nerf. They are already the most nerfed weapon in the game.

I hate to say this but after I read that I decided you were either a troll, a moron, or both.

I guess someone had to take up the lower end of humanity's bell curve, might as well be you?

Edited by Treckin, 19 March 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[jubbly]

Yeah I'm at the point that I feel bad running LRMs. This needs a hot fix.