12 replies to this topic

[Yiazmat]

As a fan of the dakka dakka, I would like to put forth a level headed discussion of ballistic weapons, and the small tweaking some of them need. Enjoy, and please leave your troll caged.
Also, I know this isn't TT savvy, but this game is already past breaking TT rules. While I respect the people want to stick to the TT values, this is an online game and it really, truly, needs to break some more of that cannon to be balanced (I hate that word, balance).

Machine gun: First, rename it to Chain Gun. This isn't an MG42, it's a 30mm Vulcan, (see A10 Warthog). Second, 400 rounds per ton, have it do 2 dps (0.2 dmg a round, 10 rounds a second) within 90m. Keep the heat the same, it just requires you to hold target (a feat in itself) but doing so would rip mechs to shreds in a short order with 4 of these firing. This will give small mechs with lots of ballistic hard points a little more viability. The crit... *shrug* take it or leave it, whatever.

AC2: Fix the lag on fire, bring it back to 2 rounds a second (currently at like 2 per 1.15) I'm fine with 75 ammo per ton here, but I would like to see the weight of the AC2 dropped by 1-2 tons (4 or 5 weight total). This will become even more vital with the drop of the Jagermech and Blackjack (45 tons).

AC5: Drop the weight by 1 ton (7t), up fire rate to 1.25, just no chance to double-fire like the UAC5. This give is a competitive edge: less weight, little more ammo, just less bursty and more reliable. Great trade off.

UAC5: Only thing I would change is the rate at which it would jam: 1st double fire shot chance to jam 15%. 2nd 25%. 3rd 35%. 4th 45%. 5th 65%. 6th 75%. 7th 90%. 8th 99%. 9th 99% (and so on, it -is- possible to fire forever with double shot, but statistically impossible). Not a linear probability, but exponential.

AC10: Drop the tonnage by 2 tons (10), make the fire rate an even 2 (from 2.5), and possibly 20 rounds per ton. This gun needs a big heap of love to make it really viable. Nobody really uses these.

LBX10: Much, much debate here. My idea: Increase the weight by 1 ton (12), put in a button to allow it to cycle between AC10 and LBX10 ammo. This would take 1.5x the time it takes to cycle a normal round (suggested 2 seconds) so 3 seconds to change from Slug ammo to Flechette ammo. You would have to carry both types of ammo to use it, but it would give you the ability to go from armor stripping to component crit seeking.

Gauss: The glass canon. Leave it, works great. Possibly drop the weight by 1 ton.

AC20: Only thing I would change here is increase the ammo per ton by 1. So 8 rounds per ton.


Happy hunting.

Edited by Yiazmat, 07 March 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[thecrimsonchin8]

Bump

[Yiazmat]

so noone cares for the state of ballistics? you all want to cry about consumable items that aren't in game? common now. ballistic weapons need an overhaul. discuss!

[Spawnsalot]

Further down the line I'd like to see different models of different AC classes - we currently have the large bore, single shot cannons, what about the option for a burst fire model? Same damage etc. just a different way of putting the damage down.

[Big Giant Head]

I would like to see that ammunition "toggle" for UAC ammo as well.
Plus add a chance of jamming in the current fire mode (so you cannot toggle it if it receives crit hit or something)

[Yiazmat]

Big Giant Head, on 07 March 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I would like to see that ammunition "toggle" for UAC ammo as well.
Plus add a chance of jamming in the current fire mode (so you cannot toggle it if it receives crit hit or something)

I'd go for that, a crit on a UAC5, but not destroying it, damages the double fire sequence and wouldn't be able to double tap anymore.

[Big Giant Head]

Yiazmat, on 07 March 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I'd go for that, a crit on a UAC5, but not destroying it, damages the double fire sequence and wouldn't be able to double tap anymore.

Yeah that would be immersive we just need to watch not to ruin in it. That those crit jams dont occur so frequently but still no so rarely.

[Yiazmat]

Anyone have a decent idea to do with the ac10? Seems like it needs the most work.

[Big Giant Head]

its ok but it needs some better visuals and sound to look more awesome

[Yiazmat]

So in light of the new mech today, balistics need some attention. Hopefully this thread will pick back up. simply dropping the weight of the smaller canons will help immensely.

[Durant Carlyle]

See ... that kind of thing ain't gonna happen. The size and weight of these weapons is all brought up from tabletop BattleTech. They can tweak the damage and heat, and even the ammo per ton a little bit, but the weapons themselves are inviolate. You're talking about making weapons that don't exist in the 20-plus years of BattleTech back-story -- and that's what this game is based heavily upon. Just as it's highly unlikely there will be any original never-before-seen BattleMechs (other than variants of existing designs).

[General Taskeen]

They won't every touch tonnage or crit stuff.

The only things they change are damage, heat, cool down, and ammo per ton.

AC tweaking is better with changing cool down rates (AC/5 and AC/10 could be faster), possible heat issues (like AC/2), or upping the ammo per ton.

UAC's right now are the most god awful interpretation I've seen in a Mech game. The "shoot 2 shells" at once mechanic needs to go, and instead have a 2x better fire rate. The jam itself needs to be skill based (such as barrel 'heat soak'), and not roll the dice based. Since I am a Prophet, Clan Ultra 20's are gonna be major FOTM with Ultra's in their current, ridiculous format.

LB-X - The ability to change ammo is only a feature, while that would be nice, the real change must start with how the cluster is balanced. The spread of the cone must be severely reduced so all pellets hit a target at its intended, effective range and the clusters need to have a damage buff (this is how every Mech game has implemented LB-X to date).

Edited by General Taskeen, 19 March 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[jeffsw6]

Yiazmat, on 06 March 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

LBX10: Much, much debate here. My idea: Increase the weight by 1 ton (12), put in a button to allow it to cycle between AC10 and LBX10 ammo.

I'm a newbie and am just starting to work the ballastic weapons into my gameplay.

I think the gun jamming needs to be explained in the mech lab item descriptions. Things like this need to be better explained in-game. Not every player will read forums or wikis to find out how to take advantage of the equipment available to them. "Double fire?" I have no clue about this.

I have an LBX10 on my Atlas. I did not know what it was going to be, but I have played around 100 games with it, and it feels useful for hitting fast-moving opponents at close range. I think the gun and its ammo are too heavy, though. I keep being tempted to get rid of it and just buy some better lasers and more heat sinks.

All ballastic weapons seem inferior to lasers when you consider that they are geneally heavier for the same amount of damage, use up more slots, AND you have to carry a bunch of ammo. Missiles are a better trade-off right now, in my newbie opinion. I find myself using guns as a source of low-heat damage so I can fight longer before I need to flee and cool off, but I wonder if I shouldn't just buy more DHS.

In short, I think you are asking for minor tweaks to the weight and ammo of ballastics, when what is really needed, is a big buff to guns, or a nerf to lasers and LRMs (or LRM ammo/ton.) They are relatively low-value weapons by comparison.

My $0.02.