24 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

With every ballistic weapon:

A. Having to fire constantly to maintain any sort of DPS or advantage.
B. Having different projectile speeds than each other

you are left with 2 real options.

1. Boat the same AC variant (which everyone does.)
2. Be a god of FPS games and constantly be adjusting for 2 different projectile speeds within microseconds of firing the guns so you can use two different weapons (nobody can do this.)

As such, how about we just increase all non-AC20 AC projectile speed to that of the AC/2. If you want you can even leave out the UAC/5, just make it so normal AC weapons can be at least used together. I don't even care about their balance, I just want ot be able to use AC/5s and AC/2s with each other, and maybe even an AC/10.

[jeffsw6]

I mount AC/2 and UAC/5 on most of my mechs right now, in the same mounting location. Their accuracy seems poor against lagging opponents anyway; but when I can get them aimed at a heavy or assault, they are going to do a lot of dmg for less heat than lasers.

They are kind of useless to me against light mechs. I spray and pray, but my dmg against lights comes from lasers. It's the only thing I seem to be able to hit them with. All my mechs are brawlers right now; not like I'm using gauss rifles at 1200m. I'm sure that is another story.

[MustrumRidcully]

That's an interesting point and I wish you good luck with it, and support your efforts.

I remember before the projectile speed debuff, PPCs and Gauss Rifles had the same speed. That made firing them together pretty effective, which was beautiful. Now the Gauss RIfle is unfortunately slow as molasses compared to other ballistics and the PPC.

[Fiona Marshe]

Not a bug; its a feature. And it makes players think about their weapons and improves skill.

Ballistic speeds are only an issue if you're trying to snipe at long range; at close ranges the differences are neglible.

[MrPenguin]

TIL I'm a god.
Cool.

[Protection]

A big part of the boating is also that there are only three really good ballistics - Gauss, AC/20 and UAC/5. The others are all sub-optimal value for their high tonnage.

[hashinshin]

Fiona Marshe, on 26 March 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Not a bug; its a feature. And it makes players think about their weapons and improves skill.

Ballistic speeds are only an issue if you're trying to snipe at long range; at close ranges the differences are neglible.

Think?

What weapon should I use, I could use a mixture of different ACs to improve my ability to fight at different ranges-

NEVERMIND JUST BOAT MORE UAC/5s!

Protection, on 26 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

A big part of the boating is also that there are only three really good ballistics - Gauss, AC/20 and UAC/5. The others are all sub-optimal value for their high tonnage.

Me thinks that PGI needs to say "screw the lore I have money" to the AC/2 and AC/5 and just reduce their tonnage to like 4 and 6. But that's not important right now.

[anonymous175]

[Tezcatli]

It honestly seems like Ballistics have it the hardest. You have all the weight and ammo to deal with. Then different weapon speeds. If you're rocking AC/2s you got heat to deal with, which you'd think would be a mute issue in the future, given we have freakin lasers. Then you have the ultra AC/5 that jams like a world war 1 machine gun in the trenches. For what should be one of the older weapon types, it sure is incredibly problematic. While a laser is pretty damn straight forward.

[MrPenguin]

Its quite fitting that you got liked by nonsense.

[Paula Fry]

No Complaining no Wall of Text. Good Post!

[hashinshin]

Tezcatli, on 26 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

It honestly seems like Ballistics have it the hardest. You have all the weight and ammo to deal with. Then different weapon speeds. If you're rocking AC/2s you got heat to deal with, which you'd think would be a mute issue in the future, given we have freakin lasers. Then you have the ultra AC/5 that jams like a world war 1 machine gun in the trenches. For what should be one of the older weapon types, it sure is incredibly problematic. While a laser is pretty damn straight forward.

don't forget the UAC5 parroting every time a ballistics user says they have a problem. The UAC5 is the most frustrating unfun weapon to use in this game.

[Kiiyor]

I have lag out the wazoo. This compounds ballistics issues, and helped me steer clear of ballistics in favor of lazors. HOWEVER, with the advent of the Yager I discovered that I just wasn't bringing enuf Dakka. Once I discovered I could cram 3 or 4 UAC5's into it's fat posterior I meshed with it a lot more using good ol' TRIAL AND ERROR to get rounds on target.

"Oh, there's my aim off point, 6 mech lengths in front"

[Bagheera]

Protection, on 26 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

A big part of the boating is also that there are only three really good ballistics - Gauss, AC/20 and UAC/5. The others are all sub-optimal value for their high tonnage.

There are 1 or 2 instances where an AC10 can be a solid choice, but you are fundamentally correct. Those are the 3 top tier ballistics. There are AC2 users who are outliers, but that is the player more than the gun.

[Tennex]

yeah they should make the AC5/AC2/UAC5/PPC/ERPPC the same speed. to limit boating of one particular weapon type.

having weapons moving at different speeds really limits build options.

or at least put some kind of consideration in what kind of builds they'd like to promote, and then adjust ballistic speeds accordingly.


One solution is to add a drop off speed? maybe have AC2/AC5 fire initially at the same speed. but give the AC5 some dropoff due to friction/larger size.

At least then there'd be some synchronicity at least for mid ranges.

Edited by Tennex, 26 March 2013 - 02:37 PM.

[Sgt Disciple]

hashinshin, on 26 March 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

don't forget the UAC5 parroting every time a ballistics user says they have a problem. The UAC5 is the most frustrating unfun weapon to use in this game.

s

I love mine! Wish I could carry 4 of em.

[Karl Streiger]

Is speed really that problem?
I have used a AC 2 and dual AC 5 on the 4X for grinding through the basic skills....i can't remember that the different projectile speed had any impact.

[Tezcatli]

Tennex, on 26 March 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

yeah they should make the AC5/AC2/UAC5/PPC/ERPPC the same speed. to limit boating of one particular weapon type.

having weapons moving at different speeds really limits build options.

I think there is some grounds to having the ACs have the same speed. But PPCs work on different mechanics. Changing it to match ACs would be unrealistic and be catering to simplicity too much.

[Pygar]

hashinshin, on 26 March 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

1. Boat the same AC variant (which everyone does.)

I totally don't get what the problem is here...I really don't see a problem with Jager builds that use 2x AC/2 and 2x AC/5s, and yes, having matching cannons in the two arms is much more logical than mixing them, henceforth why "everybody does this".

[OneEyed Jack]

Tezcatli, on 26 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

If you're rocking AC/2s you got heat to deal with, which you'd think would be a mute issue in the future, given we have freakin lasers.

The word is moot ([color=#333333]of[/color][color=#333333][/color]little[color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]or[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]no[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]practical[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]value[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]or[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]meaning;[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]purely[/color][color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]academic), not mute.[/color]

More to the point, what the hell do lasers have to do with anything? Since they exist, no other heat should? Is that supposed to make sense?