163 replies to this topic

[Whompity]

First off, this isn't to brown-nose or suck up to the devs. I just thought I'd respond to some of the vitriol that's been flung around lately... I know we probably don't need another thread like this, but we also don't need more negative ones and there are LOTS of those.

As someone who's dabbled in online game development, I can tell you the toughest thing is game balance. It's brutal. Games like this have SO many interdependent aspects that you can never really change one little thing and not impact 100 others, often in ways you'd never anticipate.

Part of it goes to the fact that we as gamers (and human beings) will always find the cheese... if something works, overloading it will make it work better! Or if a tactic is successful, everybody's doing it within a week. That kind of thing changes game-flow in a way you might never anticipate as a dev. Testing? Sure, you do that. At least to a reasonable degree. But making a change and running it by a few dozen people over a few weeks is NOTHING compared to what thousands of competitive monkeys hammering away can do in the span of a few days.

And game devs WANT to make good games. They have to make a living, and so there will always be questions about why some things cost x amount and some cost y, but that's the price of delivering a product... it isn't a charity. Online game devs have a passion for their work, and for their game universes (generally; especially in ones like this that are enthusiast-coded) so you really have to take that into account when formulating a flaming rant on why they should "quit for the sake of the game". That kind of stuff is demoralizing and not particularly helpful.

And even game devs aren't imperfect. Sometimes, things just don't go as planned and they might have to back-pedal, or god-forbid, change their minds (*cough* coolant). That happens. This isn't a courtroom. As a publisher, they have the right to change their minds and take the game in a different direction, if they wish. "But they will lose me as a customer!" some might wail. That happens every day. KFC brought in the artery-clogging Double-Down but that doesn't mean you have to eat it. If you want to stop going to KFC, that's your decision, nobody will condemn you for it, but krikey, stay frosty, will ya? No need to villify.

I know that sort of thing comes from a very small subset of subscribers, but for the love of Mike, take a few minutes before you post and think about trying to CONVINCE and PERSUADE people... not bash them about the heads. Are your arguments logical? Are they coherent? Are they laced with sarcasm? How will that be taken? Will you end up with a flamewar/trollfest when you wanted to change someone's mind? I'll guarantee that regardless of what you think, game devs (and other gamers!) will take your opinions, even if you disagree on some point, with a lot more seriousness.

So cut the devs a bit of slack. Be patient. If you don't like aspects of the game, post calmly about it. If you HATE aspects of the game and are unwilling to be convinced otherwise, other games will be happy to take your money. There are no "points" to be scored by flame-threads. I know there is a lot of emotional investment in the franchise by so many BT fans, but we've got to be happy that someone is at least giving us a useable, entertaining product in the BT universe.

[Garth Erlam]

/wipes tear from eye

o7

[akaChrisHimself]

Get back to work, eh?!

[Pygar]

NO.

LRMs already were OP and have been for a long time... the fact that the somebody over at PGI was insane enough to o.k. a missile buff when they were already stinky good has me wanting to cut somebodies throat, not cut the devs some slack.

[3rdworld]

One time, I messed up at my job.

My boss said something to me about it.

[Roland]

Pygar, on 20 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

NO.

LRMs already were OP and have been for a long time... the fact that the somebody over at PGI was insane enough to o.k. a missile buff when they were already stinky good has me wanting to cut somebodies throat, not cut the devs some slack.

Dude, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

They obviously didn't BUFF missiles... The fixed a bug, and fixing that had an unintended consequence of making missiles far stronger.

If anything, they made an error in not testing this change. But they obviously didn't intentionally create LRM-ageddon.

[Whompity]

3rdworld, on 20 March 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

One time, I messed up at my job.
My boss said something to me about it.

To fine-tune your analogy, It's fine to mention that you think the steak is overcooked, but you don't throw it at the waiter. That's rude and uncivilized.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[3rdworld]

Olivia Maybach, on 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

To fine-tune your analogy, It's fine to mention that you think the steak is overcooked, but you don't throw it at the waiter. That's rude and uncivilized.

No but I normally get my money back.

or free diner as it were.

Edited by 3rdworld, 20 March 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[Whompity]

3rdworld, on 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

No but I normally get my money back. or free diner as it were.

In this case, you get as many "free dinners" as you want. You can continue playing matches for as long as MWO operates. If you are so emotionally invested in this game that you think you are entitled to some sort of recompense every time a balance issue doesn't work out the way ANYONE anticipated... well... this is hardly the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of online gaming.

If you couldn't connect to the service for a day or two of your premium time, then maybe I might ask for something in return. This... isn't that.

To reiterate: Balance is a bit**. THE.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 20 March 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Darius Deadeye]

3rdworld, on 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

No but I normally get my money back.

or free diner as it were.

Actually in most restaurants they either make you a new steak or throw in a gratuitious free dessert.

In the case of MWO, instead of waiting for that new steak, you wait for that new content update/patch.

[Rozav]

It's not the games themselves, but the forum wars they've spawned.
Long ago, in the 1980s and early 90s, the majority of would be forum-warriors found themselves without broadband access to free-for-all forums.

Now, it's a lot easier to initiate verbal boxing matches and virtual soapbox battles, thanks to every single game company having game forums for their stuff.

Technology changes, humanity will always stay the same (trolltastically classy)

[Garth Erlam]

3rdworld, on 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

No but I normally get my money back. or free diner as it were.

Boy are you in luck then; I'm here to announce MechWarrior Online - a free to play game!

[3rdworld]

Olivia Maybach, on 20 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

In this case, you get as many "free dinners" as you want. You can continue playing matches for as long as MWO operates. If you are so emotionally invested in this game that you think you are entitled to some sort of recompense every time a balance issue doesn't work out the way ANYONE anticipated... well... this is hardly the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of online gaming.

<legendary founder

I am also invested monetarily, with a product I cannot return, just like your steak. I can however tell the waiter to take it back and make me a new one.

Or complain to garth about something being broken, hoping he takes it to the chefs (devs) to get it fixed.

Looks like your metaphor didn't work out so well eh?

[zverofaust]

Quote

As someone who's dabbled in online game development

Watch out guys he's dabbled

In grade school I dabbled in chemistry by mixing vinegar and baking soda. Clearly this gives me the authority to discuss the racemical synthesization of organic compounds during abiogenesis.

No but really I've also dabbled in online game development. PGI is fresh and new and most of their mistakes can be explained by this. But it's also frustrating for people like me who see a lot of promise in the game and are heartbroken when it stumbles.

Edited by zverofaust, 20 March 2013 - 10:40 AM.

[Voridan Atreides]

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

/wipes tear from eye

o7

BaneReIIiK, on 20 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Get back to work, eh?!

psssh You should see Mike Forst in k-town!!!

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 20 March 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[3rdworld]

Garth Erlam, on 20 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Boy are you in luck then; I'm here to announce MechWarrior Online - a free to play game!

That charges money for a lot of the new content.

That is like serving me a free overly salted meal and making me pay for water.

[Foust]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 March 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

I'm fine with the notion that game development is hard.

Communicating is not hard.

Less than 24 hours after the patch they acknowledge a issue, say they are looking into it and provide their path to remediation.

That is a acceptable level of communication.

[Darius Deadeye]

3rdworld, on 20 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

That charges money for a lot of the new content.

That is like serving me a free overly salted meal and making me pay for water.

What exactly do they charge money for that you can't acquire by free? Hero Mech's? The MC coolant flush? Colors?

How much and in what ways does this affect your gameplay?

edit:typo

Edited by Darius Deadeye, 20 March 2013 - 10:42 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Foust, on 20 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Less than 24 hours after the patch they acknowledge a issue, say they are looking into it and provide their path to remediation.

That is a acceptable level of communication.

1 out of 50 tries is not an acceptable level of communication.

If they keep this trend up, I'll start changing my point of view.

[xhrit]

I have been involved in a number of game and mod projects over the years, and the most valuable thing to a developer is user feedback.

OK, well maybe money is the most valuable thing.... user feedback is high on that list.