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EDIT: IF you VOTE, pls say why you choose your Vote!!! I love the NO Voters who doesnt say a thing, some did, exept the simply one line writers, so i have to guess, they have no better idea or dont want to loose their loved oneclickmechs. In other fps games you can make oneclickdeaths, headshot headshot headshot, this game is mechbrawling, so the most fun is, if the fights last over some time. Wich isnt the case at the moment sadly.
So lets begin the big thing. If you read on, please consider, that its not meant as an offence against your thinking of the gamesystem, or your ideas, or decissions you made, in the early stages of the creation of MWO. None of these, we respect what you did, and we love the game, but! We have a problem out there with what MWO has become over the time, cause some of your decissions made that possible, as you created MWO. Maybe you know that what we think is right and good, or had same ideas, but you don´t have at the moment the money, time, and resources to recreat it, and reintroduce it.
You created MWO in the thoughts of BT, as near as possible, cause it is BT. You decided to open all hardpoints up, and simply, limiting it to, Energy, Ballistics, Missile HPs (Hardpoints). From a decission in creation phase, this was for sure good, it was simple enough and in some kind it was different. But it opened the door for Boating, at the moment, we have on the field, nearly only boating mechs, and not only the mechs wich were created in BT as baots, no now nearly all can boat. Think of the following please. You go to a damn big cardealer. He has all kinds of cars, lets say, from: BMW, VW, Dodge, Ford, Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on, all kind of chassis. So you go there and buy some, now you have the ability to interchange every cars parts with another ones, so you can move the doors from the Ferrari to your BMW, to your Dodge, to your Ford. Then you move the axes all around, you move the interior in every car that you like. What will be left of the cars Charakter, design idea, imagination and useness? Nothing, only one thing, different Chassis, different names. Everything else is gone, every car can have that Ferrari engine, or the interior, the doors..everything. None of the cars will be as it was designed in mind for use. And the same problem we have now in MWO. We can change everything, every little bit of thing we can change. So the mechs become only different chassis, with different names, none of them do the job they were intended to do, or in mind as they were created in the factory on their planets (gamelore spoken). There is no more difference between them, exept, tonnage, name, loadout hardpoints. So all became in some kind boats, laserboats, ac boats, streakboats, lrmboats.
My bro and i call this Multi omni mechs. Players like us, who like to use diversified loadouts, cause we try to use the mechs as nearly as they were created for battle, got shot to death, and there are alot of ppl who like the roles of mechs, and try to fight and load them like intended. But we have no chance, cause, the "we are useing maxkillloadout players", use them as boats, cause the easiest way to win. And over time, even the ppl that dont like boating, or try to load their mechs like the role of the mech should be, are nessessitated to go to boats, or we can´t have even fights.
At the moment, all mechs are omnis, lets call them multiomnis, cause we change every single bit on them, and are enabled to boat, doesnt matter of the idea behind the chassis. So there comes another problem with this...how to implement the clans? Yes, this multi omni system, makes it difficult to implement the clans, cause, they have omnis...and at the moment we already have better omnis. And with this system, even the clans would change everything, so they would become far more powerfull on the field. Thats why your thoughts were, not to crosschange equipment between IS mechs and Clan mechs, sure, how can you keep it balanced, we say, with this multi omni system, no way over a long time period, and no way to keep it, cause nearly every player would go to play clan, even if you restrict it, its a game you need the user, so you earn the money to keep the game running. Fact, over the time, the IS faction would die out, and only the Clans would survive, cause everyone wants the benefit of the power on the field. And this in fact, would over time, maybe kill MWO, and or would force you to change the game to only a Clan faction game. With your multi omni system, there is no need of IS mechs, Clans have better tech, on the field you win with the better tech, and if you nerf the clans, to get balanced, you will unbalance the game over time, cause then the clans are not needed as faction, cause they have no difference to the IS faction technic. Mybe we see it wrong, and you have a good idea on that, maybe not. Even if it would creat a big rage, qq, whiners, please consider to stop the timeline, and let pass another year. And think about our idea that we will list now, we try to explain everything as good as possible, that you understand why and what it will change to the gamemechanic, and how it will help balance itselfe mostly, not perfectly, but nothing is perfect, and its your job to tweak around. ;-) Like it is ours to use it and say thats ok or this ist not good.
Explenation:
First we show you the IS Hardpoint System, then later we explain the Clan Hardpoint System.
Revamped Hardpoint System for the Innere Sphere Mechs and Technics.
LR HP (LRM Hardpoint) = All LRMs fit here only
SR HP (SRM Hardpoint) = SRMs and Streak SRMs fit here only
SE HP (Small Energy Hardpoint) = Smalllaser, Smallpulselaser, Medlaser, Medpulselaser fit here only
HE HP (Heavy Energy Hardpoint) = Largelaser, ER Largelaser, Largepulselaser, PPC, ERPPC fit here only
AC HP (Autocannon Hardpoint) = AC2, AC5, UAC5, AC10, LB10X fit here only
AsC HP (Assaultcannon Hardpoint) = AC20, Gauss fit here only
NARC HP (Narc Hardpoint) = Narc launcher fit here only
AI HP (Antiinfantry Hardpoint) = MG, Flamer fit here only
EL HP (Electronic Hardpoint) = ECM, TAG, BAP fit here only (Tag cause, its no weapon, no heat, no damg, only a laser to guide Missiles)
The EL HP system can be tweaked by you as you wish, its only for showing you the use.
AMS HP unchanged
Example Mechs to show you the idea behind this, and to see, how it prevents Boating, exept from the mechs that were designed to boat.
And to show you how mechs fullfill their intended roles, and how every different chassi, and mech variant becomes viable again, how with this, they have to be bought and used, by us users, and would also bring you cash in.
Also we will explain to you the idea how you can use Hero Mechs, to get far more new costumers to buy one, even if they dont want premium or mc, but a Hero would be interessting for them to and bring you more cash in.
Short Explanation only for no missunderstanding. Everything can be tweaked as you see fit of course, they are examples to show you what we intend to change for balance.
RA = Right Arm
RT = Right Torso
CT = Center Torso
LT = Left Torso
LA = Left Arm
H = Head
Legs we left out of the system, cause if there are JJ or whatever to be introduced from PGI its up to you lads and gents. If at an Electronics Hardpoint is named as: no ECM, its because you did not allow this mech to carry ECM at the moment. AMS is still in use as you implemented. AntiInfantry Hardpoints, will become usefull, if you consider to put in consumable Infantry, armor and VTOL units, for deep strategy usage, to cover Cap points, buildings and so on, was a very good thread from Asakara on the forums about it, would bring big depth into tactical gameplay, and also if Arti, Airstrike, infantry, armor and Vtol deployment could be controlled from the Company leader, and lance leaders, so a mechwarrior can mark on the map were they need them to be dropped or ordered from commander were to drop them, and the leaders need to confirm it, in the chain of command. So useless spam can be cut down, mybe another system for PUG games, and more strategic version of Organized teamfights, (CW) off course. Only a suggestion on that.
So now the mechexamples: (dont forget, there are lot of good ideas to for Hardpoints, and mybe they fit into it too)
Raven 3L
RA - 3x SE HP
RT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP
CT - 1x EL HP
LT - 1x EL HP
LA - 1x NARC HP
Raven 2x
RA - 2x SE HP
RT - 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - shield
Spider 5K
RA - 2x AI HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x SE HP
LT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x AI HP
Commando 2D
RA - 1x SR HP + 1x LR HP
RT - 1x EL HP
CT - 1x SR HP
LT - 2x EL HP
LA - 1x SE HP
Jenner 7D
RA - 2x SE HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP
LT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x SE HP
Cicada 3M
RA - Shield
RT - 1x SE HP + 2x EL HP
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 1x SE HP + 1x AC HP + 1x EL HP
La - Shield
Centurion 9A
RA - 1x AC HP
RT - 2x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 2x LR HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - Shield
Centurion AL
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
RT - 2x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - Shield
Hunchback 4G
RA - 1x SE HP
RT - 1x AsC HP
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 2x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SE HP
H - 1x SE HP
Hunchback 4H
RA - 1x SE HP
RT - 1x AC HP + 2x SE HP
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 2x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SE HP
H - 1x SE HP
Trebuchet 7K
RA - 2x SR HP
RT - 2x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 2x AC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - Shield
Trebuchet 7M
RA - 2x SE HP
RT - 1x LR HP + 1 EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x NARC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SE HP + 1x LR HP
Dracon 1N
RA - 2x AC HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP
LT - 1x SE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SE HP
Dracon 1C
RA - 1x AC HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x LR HP
LT - 2x SE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x SE HP
Catapult C1
RA - 1x LR HP
RT - 1x SE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 1x SE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x LR HP
Catapult C4
RA - 2x LR HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 2x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x LR HP
Catapult A1
RA - 2x LR HP + 1x SR HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x LR HP + 1x SR HP
Catapult K2
RA - 1x HE HP
RT - 1x SE HP + 1x AI HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x SE HP + 1x AI HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x HE HP
Cataphract 4x
RA - 2x AC HP
RT - 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x HE HP (LargeLaser fits only)
LT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x AC HP
H - 1x LR HP
Cataphract 2x
RA - 1x HE HP
RT - 1x AC HP + 1x SE HP
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x SE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 2x SR HP
Awsome 8Q
RA - 1x HE HP
RT - 1x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - Shield
H - 1x SE HP
Awsome 8R
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
RT - 1x HE HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - ShieldH - 1x SE HP
Awsome 8T
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
RT - 1x LR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
H - 1x SE HP
Awsome 9M
RA - 1x HE HP
RT - 1x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP + 2x SR HP
LT - 1x HE HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SR HP
H - 1x SE HP
Stalker 3F
RA - 1x LR HP + 2x SE HP
RT - 1x HE HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x HE HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x LR HP + 2x SE HP
Stalker 5M
RA - 1x LR HP + 2x SE HP
RT - 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP no ECM
LT - 1x SR HP + 1x NARC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x LR HP + 2x SE HP
Atlas 7D
RA - 1x SE HP
RT - 1x AsC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x SE HP
Atlas D-DC
RA - 1x SE HP
RT - 1x AsC HP + 1x EL HP
CT - 1x EL HP
LT - 2x LR HP + 1x SR HP
LA - 1x SE HP
Atlas K
RA - 1x HE HP
RT - 1x AsC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 2x SE HP
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
LA - 1x HE HP
Atlas RS
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
RT - 1x AC HP + 1x EL HP no ECM
CT - 1x EL HP
LT - 1x LR HP + 1x SR HP
LA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP
As you can sie on this Variants, you see that everyone is different, has a role, can be customised only in some restrictions in weapon loadouts, so boating is only possible with mechs, that are built for it, but in a normal manner. The two Cataphracts 4x and 2x are in different roles, 4x is a long range supporter/sniper, the 2x is a short range brawler. Both are different to handle and also to play, loadouts can be tweaked by your intensions, but allways avoid to let them boat to much of one weapon, exept mechs that are built to do so, like A1, C4, 8Q, 4SP, 4P and so on, so every chassi has a use, if you dont want the 4g hunchi, cause you dont like ac20 or gauss, you switch to the 4H version witch can mount acs, and so on. Sure some HPs should be rethought now, its in your hands, but this would balance the IS mechs.
NOW: Explenation for Configuring the mechs, with kind of omni system but benefits and drawbacks.
IS mechs can Exchange following parts freely: Internal Structure, Engine, Armor. Weapons are restricted, cause IS mechs are not omni module built.
Clan mechs can NOT Exchange following Parts freely: Internal Structure, Engine, Armor. They are built, delivered to the field. Clanwarrior doesnt bother with the mechchassis, they need the guns. Their Weaponloadouts are free, means, they can fit in whatever they like, they have a max tonnage avilable, and can use them, but they have to live with the chassis design drawbacks. This makes a big difference between both factions.
The IS players can mount faster engine, more armor, ease tonnage, but have lesser firepower, so they need to teamwork against clan players, they also get rewarded in teamplay as you already do.
Clan Players, have fixed mounted chassis, but can load freely the weapons, yes they can boat, clan mech configs boat weapons, cause the clanwarriors are breed to conquer and destroy, so they mount blasting guns, harder hitting, longer range, hotter, but they cant modify their omnis. Claners are born to win, and this shows that they can beat every mech in any mech. Reward Clan players for EGO driven playing, sure they drop in a star, but they need to be focused on fighting against solotargets, so they get lot of Honorpoints, if they break the rule they get far far less points, so you can make a big difference between the two factions, as well in technical sight, as in playstyle.
So you make two totally different species, and ppl stay interessted in IS faction and Clan faction, cause some simply hate clans, and or IS, or like the challange to beat them, the clan players are driven to fight with every weapon system they like, but, they need DHS, or more ammo, or a smaller gun to run the loadout.
TWO wholy different factions, different mech use, different mech concept, different playstyles, different rewards.
And for the problem with no crosschanging weapons, this would be neglatet, you can allow it, BUT, with restrictions.
Example: If the Clans get beaten by lore story, you make Clan weapons available to IS. But. Over a Blackmarket, to damn high prices, let them pay damn 10.000.000 cbills for a Clan ER PPC, they can farm it, and dont let IS mech chassis change more then 40 - 50% of their loadout into Clantech, this you can explain by, IS Engines dont have the same Energie to fuel more Clan weapons. simple. So have Clanners after enough time passes, the chance too, to mount Rotary ACs, Heavy Gauss, give the Clanside Clanresources instead of Cbills. They also need to pay damn high prices.
BUT!!!!
Another possibility for both factions to get on Clan or IS WEAPON tech, dont cross Engines, Structure, Armor, DHS!!!!!! This keeps the balance between both sides.
So another thing would be: 12 IS player play against 5 Clan players in a fight faction vs faction. The IS players beat the meanacing Clanplayers in their boat loads and hard guns, with gangup shooting and Arti or Airstrike or infantry and armor placings. NOW...at the end of the round, let a random system roll on 3 Items on the Clan side loadout, and let these 3 items be randomly salvaged by 3 different players, sure the Clanplayers dont loose any item.
So the IS players get exitet that they managed to get some salvage from the field, and also if time goes on and new IS items come in let the clanners be rewarded same way.
With this you can keep players in, bind them, keeping us playing and paying for damn long time in MWO. And with the above HP system, and benefit and drawback system of the two factions, you can make a difference. Also the HP system balances the boating, sure needs to be tweaked, but it will help alot, and make tha game feel balanced. Even PUGs will have it easier, to win, cause, every mech is worth be played.
At the moment, there are some chassis, that are used, cause can boat extreme dmg. Imagine, hundred cars, but only 5 of them are used cause can be tuned to be superior in speed...why other cars then? no reason.
For the real Boaters, who have skill, and use the mechs for max dmg, there would be solaris as arena styled games, you can feed us with streams of the hard fought competitive games on solaris, between those damn skilled boaters, there all mechs can be open HPs, lets say: pimpmymechs Mechs, only for Gladiator games on Solaris, between skilled elite boaters. I dont speak of the easy oneclick boaters who play the easy way.
At the moment, we have multiomnis, no balance with the curent hardpoint system, so no need for more mechs, 4 different are enough, they rule with boat loads.
I explained this to some ppl, most over 50y, so never played games, never heard of MW, BT. But i explained as it is now, and as it could be, and what would make difference. They saw the balance behind it, saw the longtime living of the system, and that ppl would have 3 totally different play and mech styles.
For your nice Hero mechs, you should also consider to make this HP system, we know, big rage, qq, and whiners if you do it without a bonus to get the ppl calm.
Lets think the following idea: Ilya Muromets, restricted loadout, big rage, i payed money now its nerfed!...but now you can add in some bonuses! It has 30% bonus on cbills, now add 20 - 30% EXP bonus and 5 - 10 % GXP bonus. The GXP bonur goes stright to your GXP count after the fight, but only IS Hero collects for IS Mechs.
Clan Hero collects for Clanmechs, there ppl need to have both faction heromechs if they like to boost their income, or GXP.
And even if players don´t want to buy mc, or premium, with this they would buy mostly a Hero, cause of the GXP bonus. And the ppl already having one, will not cry.
Sure the big easywinboatkillers will cry. But, they dont let MWO live a long time, its the new players, we old veterans and the ppl that will come back and see what happend to the game, and friends that get killed away from the game.
There is this old saying: Sometimes you don´t see the Forest caus of the trees...
BTW, i show you a last Example for the Clan Mechs:
Clan: - FREE HP (Fr HP) (can mount, AC, AsC, HE Lasers, SE lasers, LRMs, SRMs, STRLRMs, STRSRMs and so on)
Mad Dog (Vulture)
28 tons HP space
XL Engine - Fixed
Standard Structure - Fixed
Ferro Armor - Fixed
Jump Jets can be mounted via Fr HP
RA - Free HP
RT - Free HP
CT - Free HP
LT - Free HP
LA - Free HP
H - Free HP
RL - Free HP
LL - Free HP
Hellbringer (Loki)
28,75 tons HP space
XL Engine - Fixed
Standard Structur - Fixed
Standard Armor - Fixed
Jump Jets can be mounted via Fr HP
RA - Fr HP
RT - Fr HP
CT - Fr HP
LT - Fr HP
LA - Fr HP
H - Fr HP
RL - Fr HP
LL - Fr HP
Summoner (Thor)
22,75 tons HP space
XL Engine - Fixed
Standard Structure - Fixed
Ferro Armor - Fixed
Jump Jets - Fixed
RA - Fr HP
RT - Fr HP
CT - Jump Jet
LT - Fr HP
LA - Fr HP
H - Fr HP
RL - Jump Jets
LL - Jump Jets
Explaination how it would work for the Clanmechs, so you can see the difference in the mech designs. If you look at the system now in the example below you see the following:
Multiomni as it is now.
Orion 75t mech
Engine not fixed
Structure not fixed
Armor not fixed
Weapons not fixed
Speed not fixed
Summoner 70t clanmech
Engine not fixed
Structure not fixed
Armor not fixed
Weapons not fixed
Speed not fixed
No Difference
only chassis and name
Heavy to balance
Example for our system:
Orion 75t mech
Engine not fixed
Structure not fixed
Armor not fixed
Jump Jets not fixed
Weapon HP Restricted
Speed not fixed
Summoner 70t clanmech
Engine fixed
Structure fixed
Armor fixed
Jump Jets fixed (only not on omni mechs wich came with not mounted JJs)
Weapons not fixed
Speed fixed (exept if its MASC)
Difference / Balance
System Balances itselfe more easily
Edit: Hint for the MASC system. Dont use it like in tt, its a online game, so make it easier without a warpdrive system. Let the player activate MASC, if so, with every second he uses it, the heat climbs up, cause he stresses the Engine, at about 70 - 80% Heat, it deactivates automatically, till heat is down to normal levels. So you prevent, missuse!
If MASC works, he needs to watch his weaponheat, if MASC is overheated, he can´t fire cause he causes a Powerdown of the Engine. Simple solution.
Edit: Please, dont lock Engine size on Torso turn rate, every mech chassi should be feeling different as you allready do tweak the chassis, unlock engine size and torso twist speed. This is another situation that makes it hard on the field.
Thank you for reading till the end, we hope to see more to come in MWO, and mybe it will help you to balance the Game to a point were your Company can make lot of Cash to go on, and to get more and more ppl to play MWO, cause its very different from every other Shooter game out there.
We know, now big discussion will start, and what ever with it, but don´t forget, if only a unbalanced system stays, some day, noone of us will have MWO to play anymore.
And realy sorry for the not perfect english.
Edit:Skillbased aiming is important for fps games, but in MWO there should be also some convergeance in the aiming, as example: You have your target circles, and you move them, you target a mech, and as longer you wait, the narrower your aimcircels come, like WoT did it, so you can prevent 6ppcs or laser or gauss to hit only one location, let the weapons spread inside the circle, this would also let ppl decide, when they fire, how they use the chance to fire the weapons. You also can link unlockable skills to it, like you did with torsotwist, aim and so on. And it also helps to think how to integrate Targeting Computers in the future, atm we have them installed, without tonnage, and crit space.
Edit: Cause PGI doubled armor for the reason of longer fights, ammo should have also been doubled, cause now we run in solaris mode, we fire tripple time faster then tt rules, and have to walk with Dropshiplike ammoloads, this would also help the stockmechs, so even they can fire longer exept the heatissue they have.
Edited by FrostBear, 22 April 2013 - 01:55 PM.
Removed multiple choice and fixed a lot of formating so it became halfway readable
