244 replies to this topic

[blinkin]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Your post here kind of contradicts itself. So you are saying everything is terrible from the 88 forums? And having it all in one place is crap? See my impression was that we had 88 subforums worth of information and you just didn't like it all being in one forum?

If it's all crap why even have forums then? Make up your mind.

They did a terrible job moderating GD, and they aren't doing much better now. We've got like 5 general discussion forums now. It's a giant mess.

is everything crap? no. does every subject get a series of new threads that are functionally identical to each other? yes. is the majority of what we see on the forums mindless crap? yes.

so if we spread out the pile of crap then maybe there will be a slim chance of the occasional good idea lingering on a front page long enough for someone who actually works on the game to find it.

ever hear of bumping posts? guess why that practice came about.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Welp I'm not saying that.

I DO think any posts moved should have a re-direct link from the forum it was moved from though. I also think that under no circumstances should posts be deleted unless they are spam or an utter and complete attacking style of post.

I also think that the mods should be very careful moving large threads that seem to have a lot of player interest and perhaps in the interest of open communication leave them alone even if they don't quite fit the forum they are in.

these statements i understand and mostly agree with.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

blinkin, on 29 April 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

is everything crap? no. does every subject get a series of new threads that are functionally identical to each other? yes. is the majority of what we see on the forums mindless crap? yes.

so if we spread out the pile of crap then maybe there will be a slim chance of the occasional good idea lingering on a front page long enough for someone who actually works on the game to find it.

ever hear of bumping posts? guess why that practice came about.

Mods are welcome to combine threads. Once again best practice is to put a re-direct link so people know it's been moved. I'd be surprised if this forum didn't have that functionality.

The main thing is, that the point is to encourage discussion and debate. Not discourage it.

Unfortunately it seems they haven't quite figured that out yet.

I disagree that the "majority" of what we see is mindless crap. Why would you bother coming here then? Are you a *********? EDIT: Really? M-a-s-o-c-h-i-s-t is filtered?

The other issue, which is once again the developers/mods fault is coming out and saying "We only pay attention to forums when there is a trend".

Well how do you create a trend without creating multiple posts about a subject?

Perhaps it would be better if they said "Garth, who we pay to be a community manager, is actively reading threads. He reports hot topics back to us during our weekly meetings". And perhaps it would be good if Garth was making sure to make a quick "Hey guys, read this, we'll take a look".

Pretty simple things.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 29 April 2013 - 03:40 PM.

[Purplefluffybunny]

blinkin, on 29 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

maybe you aren't but i have seen several posts that in no uncertain terms state that we should "get rid of all of these subforums and bring back general discussion" <-i don't know of very many ways to interperate this.

Yeah, I think sometimes when people get emotive they resort to a polarising style of rhetoric. From what I can see, it seems to be the case that both sides on this debate actually agree. Whilst we do need some sub-forums to focus discussions, a general forum is also needed for 1) the community to anchor to and 2) to discuss MWO in a more general sense where multiple facets of the game are drawn upon to make a given point or discussion?

There seems to be signs, at least the beginnings, of consensus around points 1) and 2) IMO.

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 29 April 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Welp I'm not saying that.

I DO think any posts moved should have a re-direct link from the forum it was moved from though. I also think that under no circumstances should posts be deleted unless they are spam or an utter and complete attacking style of post.

I also think that the mods should be very careful moving large threads that seem to have a lot of player interest and perhaps in the interest of open communication leave them alone even if they don't quite fit the forum they are in.

I really don't think we're that far apart.

i'm looking at it like this...
A petutlant child was bashing his father over the head with a toy.
Dad says "stop it" about a half hundred times, but the kid keeps doing it.
Dad takes toy away.
Kid cries.
Now, based on the future behavior and ability to lean a lesson will determine if the toy is returned.

[blinkin]

Purplefluffybunny, on 29 April 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah, I think sometimes when people get emotive they resort to a polarising style of rhetoric. From what I can see, it seems to be the case that both sides on this debate actually agree. Whilst we do need some sub-forums to focus discussions, a general forum is also needed for 1) the community to anchor to and 2) to discuss MWO in a more general sense where multiple facets of the game are drawn upon to make a given point or discussion?

i completely agree. and from what i have seen this system has all of that. some of it has been renamed and retooled, but everything seems to be there and in a much more functional form.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Mods are welcome to combine threads. Once again best practice is to put a re-direct link so people know it's been moved. I'd be surprised if this forum didn't have that functionality.

The main thing is, that the point is to encourage discussion and debate. Not discourage it.

Unfortunately it seems they haven't quite figured that out yet.

I disagree that the "majority" of what we see is mindless crap. Why would you bother coming here then? Are you a *********? EDIT: Really? M-a-s-o-c-h-i-s-t is filtered?

The other issue, which is once again the developers/mods fault is coming out and saying "We only pay attention to forums when there is a trend".

Well how do you create a trend without creating multiple posts about a subject?

Perhaps it would be better if they said "Garth, who we pay to be a community manager, is actively reading threads. He reports hot topics back to us during our weekly meetings". And perhaps it would be good if Garth was making sure to make a quick "Hey guys, read this, we'll take a look".

Pretty simple things.

am i an M-chist (yeah i found that one a long time ago and WTFed)? a little, but i don't read everything, the vast majority of these threads does not make it past my "useless BS" filter.

the forums and trends comment was a mistake in my opinion, and i have expressed my issues with that before. i have no intention of defending that one beyond saying that it was likely (i hope) someone misspeaking.

and on the other points i generally agree.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ok good, bring back GD, moderate the forum properly. Leave re-direct links when you combine/move threads. And be conscious of the fact that SOME threads should just be left alone while the community hashes things out.

It may not always be pretty, but sometimes you need to step back. It fosters a sense of community, and lets us know that the devs/mods are not just looking to limit discussion.

Sounds like a simple plan. If you need more volunteer mods, or better volunteer mods to help. Go get em.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Ok good, bring back GD, moderate the forum properly. Leave re-direct links when you combine/move threads. And be conscious of the fact that SOME threads should just be left alone while the community hashes things out.

It may not always be pretty, but sometimes you need to step back. It fosters a sense of community, and lets us know that the devs/mods are not just looking to limit discussion.

Sounds like a simple plan. If you need more volunteer mods, or better volunteer mods to help. Go get em.

I say give it a few weeks... see if the lesson takes

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Few weeks and we are like 3-4 months from release.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Few weeks and we are like 3-4 months from release.

Still a week from the next patch.
What pressing matter could possibly come up in the next 7 days to warrant an imeadiate forum change, or foster a discussion that hasn't already looked like this?...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 29 April 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Still a week from the next patch.
What pressing matter could possibly come up in the next 7 days to warrant an imeadiate forum change, or foster a discussion that hasn't already looked like this?...

Few weeks is 3-4 weeks to me. If they want to put back GD along with the new patch, that's fine.

[blinkin]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Few weeks is 3-4 weeks to me. If they want to put back GD along with the new patch, that's fine.

i just don't see the purpose of GD because there are already places that fill that role. like the jettisoned communications area.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

blinkin, on 29 April 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

i just don't see the purpose of GD because there are already places that fill that role. like the jettisoned communications area.

You are a very negative person. If you feel that everything in GD should be in Jettisoned Communication, then we are just not going to agree.

[blinkin]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

You are a very negative person. If you feel that everything in GD should be in Jettisoned Communication, then we are just not going to agree.

ok the name of the area is not flattering, but there is useful material down there. just take a look: http://mwomercs.com/...-communication/

it is where i have been going to relax and take breaks from some of the debates. k-town is still k-town but everything else is territory where there is no real defined topic and as long as you don't murder someone in an alley, you are allowed a fairly free hand.

edit: roadbeer is a regular there too. specifically the deep periphery.

Edited by blinkin, 29 April 2013 - 04:23 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

So if you are ok with that, move it up under the general discussion banner. And make it a place that people can easily identify and go too.

You keep fighting over semantics.

Make a forum, rename a forum or move an existing forum up to where these forums are. Allow people to have general discussion in it.

Done.

[Hellcat420]

blinkin, on 29 April 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

ok the name of the area is not flattering, but there is useful material down there. just take a look: http://mwomercs.com/...-communication/

it is where i have been going to relax and take breaks from some of the debates. k-town is still k-town but everything else is territory where there is no real defined topic and as long as you don't murder someone in an alley, you are allowed a fairly free hand.

edit: roadbeer is a regular there too. specifically the deep periphery.

that is for off-topic discussion, not for general discussion about the game, which is what we want. go back to your off-topic discussion and quit trollin here.

[blinkin]

Hellcat420, on 29 April 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

that is for off-topic discussion, not for general discussion about the game, which is what we want. go back to your off-topic discussion and quit trollin here.

if you want "on topic" then there are plenty of forums with topics to choose from. otherwise if it is not on one of the topics then it fits well in the "off topic" area.

you are the invader here. i have been lingering in suggestions since this went open beta and they closed down the beta forum.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Still arguing semantics. Put a forum where we can discuss whatever we want. Off-topic, On-topic. Whatever. Obviously CoC rules apply.

And stick it up near the top of the forum list.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Still arguing semantics. Put a forum where we can discuss whatever we want. Off-topic, On-topic. Whatever. Obviously CoC rules apply.

And stick it up near the top of the forum list.

I've been arguing this a while. my mouse wheel is getting tired scrolling between General Discussion(s) and K Town.

[Hellcat420]

blinkin, on 29 April 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

if you want "on topic" then there are plenty of forums with topics to choose from. otherwise if it is not on one of the topics then it fits well in the "off topic" area.

you are the invader here. i have been lingering in suggestions since this went open beta and they closed down the beta forum.

wow are you really that dumb or just trolling? we dont want a bunch of subforums to have to dredge through, we want general discussion so we dont have to look through a bunch of subforums. what part of that are you incapable of comprehending?

[blinkin]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 29 April 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Still arguing semantics. Put a forum where we can discuss whatever we want. Off-topic, On-topic. Whatever. Obviously CoC rules apply.

And stick it up near the top of the forum list.

at this point the only disagreement i really have with you is how visible it should be, and to be honest my opinions on that front are not very strong. i wouldn't have any issues with one of the off topic areas having a link further up the chain.

but currently i am fighting a war with several fronts and your moderate more reasonable views are not the only ones to contend with.

Hellcat420, on 29 April 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

wow are you really that dumb or just trolling? we dont want a bunch of subforums to have to dredge through, we want general discussion so we dont have to look through a bunch of subforums. what part of that are you incapable of comprehending?

@nicholas and fluffybunny: ^^see that this is why i have become so damned crusty about the topic. if he had his way all of the forums would be crammed into one big crap pile.