2002 replies to this topic

[Ignatz22]

Well THAT'S an odd rationale; essentially, you negated the overwhelming vote by a majority of those bothering to comment and assist in the Beta by asserting they are the CORE and thus their opinion doesn't matter, as this isn't intended for them? So an analogy would be denying the election of any political candidate by pointing out that voters have a vested interest in the goals or agenda of the candidates and their parties, so we can't count THEIR votes but focus on what those who DIDN'T vote want, whatever that is, because they didn't bother to vote for it? This way of thinking certainly clarifies the lack of responses to Forum polls and Founders' requests.

Third Person, since you have decided already to implement it, should be a separate game. It should include none of the players of First Person, as THEY do not WANT to be in Third Person games. Separated, you will need separate forums for the Third Person group to avoid them being trolled and chided as playing a different gaming experience, in essence a "game" and not a "simulation".

You will need to design a different FOG of War system and HUD display, as First Person view is altered by line of sight, ECM, HEAT vision and the like. It will probably involve a more intensive display set for the Third Person folks and unless you "dumb down" the game or the controls, Third Person will not appeal to the casual gamers you intend to attract. Again, you now have a separate game. Experienced players will be allowed to "pug stomp" if the ELO is not transferrable, but weighted to the experience in either view. Will experience in Third Person transfer to First Person? There will be complaints that time spent on an easier game does not equal time spend in the First Person, and either switching from the former to the latter will involve a complete retraining and restart for the Third Person folks, who may resent that they do not have the skills needed, or you will "buff" their experience an hope they can compete. Either ay, you have two games and as the proficiencies needed are VASTLY different, applying EXP or module development to Third Person players will NOT help them should they chose to switch modes.
It's a different experience, thus a different game, thus transfers and mutual games will not equate to corresponding player development. More time spent in either will increase the separation.
My advice is to split the two games, keep the Hard Core as you promised, and make a separate casual game for those you do not have playing now. It's going to be separate anyway, why not develop it as such??

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Honest answer.

The analysis on those who voted, showed that the majority of votes came from a very narrow demographic of our player base. And while they represent some of core players, they did not necessarily represent the opinion of the general user base. The majority of our players never visit, post, or read the forum content, so the poll could be considered weighted in favour of a specific demographic.

Since the majority of players who have an issue with 3rd person come generally from the core players, we elected to address this issue via this forum post to collect all of the concerns and ideas that this group faces or has with 3rd person.

[Windies]

Honestly, this is akin to saying I play ArmA because it has a third person view and that makes it feel exactly like CoD. The reality is I play ArmA because it gives me an experience that ultimately no other FPS on the market can give me. I play a game like Battlefield for the Battlefield experience and so forth. I'm not looking for ArmA to give me the Battlefield experience.

Do you think Bohemia Interactive would have a more successful game if they dumbed down ArmA to try to appeal to a completely different demographic? Do you think they would lose a lot of their loyal fanbase if they just up and said we're copying CoD to appeal to both demographics?

Aside from most of the technical and gameplay dynamic issue's surrounding 3pv, I honestly don't see the logic behind this decision.

[GaiDaigouji]

As long as silly things like dodge rolls or instant 180s don't crop up, I don't really see how this would damage things. Certainly, they will have a larger field of vision but I imagine that going into zoom will shunt them into first person view? Otherwise they will have massive blind spots when you sweep the camera in over their shoulders.

I'd rather see a FOV slider before a third person camera, however.

[Celestial]

I want a 3rd person view option, you guys are just a bunch of whiners FFS.

My suggestion - Go forward with adding 3rd person. All of the undesirable players who whine and complain about stuff non-stop and who threaten they will leave if 3rd person is added will leave. good riddance.

All the hardcore mechwarrior fans who actually DO love this game will stay regardless, good!

- to all the whiners -
If you threaten that you are going to leave this game because of 3rd person, then you can do us all a favor and leave now. that is such a stupid reason to stop playing a game.

[Cryptozoology]

I say don't split the queues or give these babbies an option. It's your game, you're building it, and if you want third person view in the game, just put it in.

People who say they're going to leave MWO over this are whiny children with no willpower and they won't go anywhere.

[Beef Hands]

Mechs will now be able to see around corners and over hills. I can guarantee the mixed 1st and 3rd person matches will consist of nothing but jump snipers and counter snipers. Within a few months these lobbies would be dead. Looking to expand into other markets because people on the other side of the internet like 3rd person does not seem to make sense in the long run, the community would have an easier time with moving the game to a subscription service, and most of them would support it if it meant no 3rd person and a polished and expedited community warfare.

[Helix]

Please, PGI, just...just don't. Both polls run on this have overwhelmingly shown that the playerbase doesn't want it. Please take that hint.

[kuangmk11]

If it has to go in why not make it as part of and "Arcade Mode" where you only get to use stock variants, available to all for free with nerfed or no xp and cbill rewards

[JadePanther]

They want third person View.. then give them only that..

NO HUD, NO TARGET DATA, NO TARGET RETICLE ON THE HUD.. NO MINIMAP.. NO TARGET MARKERS>>>

All that wonderful stuff is provided by all the equipment in the cockpit which they arent looking thru anymore.. So take it away..

give them what they want.. a view from outside the cockpit and all the wonderful stuff it has in it for the pilot who sits in the cockpit...

[Vassago Rain]

roguetrdr, on 21 March 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I think there might be something wrong with me. I've been liking Vassago Rain's posts and vice versa.

Everybody just wants to play gundams. PGI is making that rather difficulty, and their boneheaded plans are forcing a scenario where those who are die.hard can't justify the time investment when they know they'll get all the things they were told would never be crowbarred in X months.

[zverofaust]

All I'd ask is that 3rd person be more of a vanity feature, and not an actual functional gameplay view, by having it follow these principles:

• No HUD elements while in 3rdPV;
  
• Potentially disable weapons fire
  
• Lock camera to legs, OR;
  
• Alter freelook functionality while in 3rdPV to allow 360 degree camera rotation around the Mech

This is really all I need or want from this function, to just look at my cool Mech stomping around from an external POV during the first minute or two of a match before fighting starts.

[Genewen]

Leetskeet, on 21 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Watch out, they'll delete your post bro.

Would it make any difference? They pretty much said that we can take our opinions and shove it where the sun won't shine. We are "only" the core player base, the vocal minority, and they more or less said that they don't care what the core wants when they think they can squeeze out a few more players and their MCs from other games by implementing features that their player base hates with a passion. Everything said here, all those great, reasoning posts don't mean anything to them.

[Jetfire]

I think it is key to note that 3rd person is being looked at, because at some point, there will be a massive influx of new players, I estimate this is when "launch" occurs and marketing begins in earnest.

At this point splitting the player base by a 3rd person option will be perfectly sensible.

Again, make 2 modes, call one ARCADE and one MECHWARRIOR. So now you have a bucket for one and a bucket for the other. Keep CW as a MW mode only. Keep 3rd person, except for maybe a UAV module, in ARCADE.

Now everyone is happy. Again, don't do this today, maybe 6-12 months from now, whenever "Launch" is. At that point there better be a NEW USER experience and training as well.

[The Pull Out Method]

I would have no problem with 3rd person as long as your crosshairs or entire HUD are disabled while you are using 3P. This way, players can still get the benefits of using 3P (seeing where your legs are, better spatial awareness) without conferring any sort of combat benefit over using first person.

[Eternal Hunter]

Kinda hard to envision for me - would be nice to know your starting point and discuss it from there.
Could you tell us a bit about how you would like to implement it?

[mekabuser]

oy.. This topic seems to me like your wife sez, "hon . Im gonna cheat on you, but you tell me who.. and if you like you can watch. "
I personally think its a fools errand based on the most lopsided poll these forums have ever seen..

That being said.. my idea for implementation is twofold.. Make it so you cant peek over obstacles ala mw4.. That will lead to endless sniping fests.. That is a fact.. I hope as i go back and read this thread someone already stated this..
Secondly, if we are in 3rd person game.. Allow us to switch back and forth between first and third..
When i came to mechwarrior it was vengence ffp I played for years.. Then, I switched to mercs and that was all 3rd person..
Now I had to be able to run 3rd person to compete because, well , you know why// They can see you over obstacles, so I needed that same advantage. The thing is, I enjoy first person better, so I would switch to first person when i would be brawling..
So,, that would be two useful things when this nightmare comes to pass.

I would like to add that unless you gain a 33% increase in players daily this will have been a fools errand and the wrath of the community would indeed be justified by squandering seemingly limited resources on something the community loathes at I believe a ratio of 95% to 5%...

Just sayin.

[Ignatz22]

Celestial, on 21 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

I want a 3rd person view option, you guys are just a bunch of whiners FFS.

My suggestion - Go forward with adding 3rd person. All of the undesirable players who whine and complain about stuff non-stop and who threaten they will leave if 3rd person is added will leave. good riddance.

All the hardcore mechwarrior fans who actually DO love this game will stay regardless, good!

- to all the whiners -
If you threaten that you are going to leave this game because of 3rd person, then you can do us all a favor and leave now. that is such a stupid reason to stop playing a game.

You couldn't be more wrong; I never asserted I would stop playing, but the core of the issue isn't third person but IMPLEMENTATION of it AFTER PROMISING THEY WOULD NOT. Read the long posts (45 pages before locked) from last night, ending with the unequivocal statement that there WOULD be third person in Training Grounds ONLY. NOW there will third person integrated into First Person.
I don't trust people who can't be honest.
I don't pay when I can't trust the product.
Will we leave? I doubt most will. But will we continue to INVEST? To buy MC??
HECK NO.
I OWN these mechs, I PAID for them. For now, as worth-less as they are after today's missile patch, they're MINE.
BUT PGI HAD BETTER GET THE THIRD PERSON THING ONLINE FAST BECAUSE THEY MAY FIND THEY NEED THE INCOME FROM THOSE "CASUAL GAMERS" WHO HAVEN'T BOTHERED TO PLAY MWO TO DATE.

Use your HEAD; third person is a DIFFERENT GAME. Players accustomed to one view won't necessarily want the other, and experience playing in one won't transfer to the other as the skills needed are DIFFERENT.
THINK for moment. Yours is an OPINION, not an ARGUMENT. THINK THIS THROUGH. THERE'S more here than just third person.

Edited by Ignatz22, 21 March 2013 - 07:38 PM.

[Belisarius1]

I'd rather no third person at all, and I think you're badly mistaken as to its ability to bring in new players. Nevertheless, if you must go ahead with it, the obvious question is how it interacts with community warfare.

Do you intend for a objectives/planets/whatever to be contestable by both ffp and 3pv players?

In a game where you have plans to include a standing, long-term metagame, it's not good enough to say "they won't affect you because you won't have to play against them."

If they can take my dots - especially if they can take my dots by beating people who aren't even associated with me - they damn well affect me.

---

Edited by Belisarius1, 21 March 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Jetfire, on 21 March 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

I think it is key to note that 3rd person is being looked at, because at some point, there will be a massive influx of new players, I estimate this is when "launch" occurs and marketing begins in earnest.

At this point splitting the player base by a 3rd person option will be perfectly sensible.

Again, make 2 modes, call one ARCADE and one MECHWARRIOR. So now you have a bucket for one and a bucket for the other. Keep CW as a MW mode only. Keep 3rd person, except for maybe a UAV module, in ARCADE.

Now everyone is happy. Again, don't do this today, maybe 6-12 months from now, whenever "Launch" is. At that point there better be a NEW USER experience and training as well.

Nope... because then we have a split community, then the next step is a No Heat, Unlimited Ammo mode because the NHUA players for Mechwarrior 4 are clamoring for the glory days and it's easy mode... the game as intended falls away because NHUA is the new meta, because you don't have to worry about heat or ammo, so you can boat whatever you want not no one cares, skill is no longer part of the equation and it's who can twitch faster, or poptart harder.

This game is slowly turning into MW4 part deux! THE POPTARTING!

[LockeJaw]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

This thread is not about whether or not 3rd person should it exist. Rather, we want your feedback on how it should be implemented. Understand we're not debating the merits of having 3rd person or not.

So, you're telling us that its happening, not asking us if it should happen. I really hope you understand how pissed off I and other members of the community are at you right now.

Consumables. 3rd Person. Anything else you want to renig on? Hell, IS there anything else?!?!

Yes it is going to fracture the playerbase. Yes you're going to lose some players. Worse is the loss of enthusiasm. Where players will go from loving the game to playing b/c there is nothing else. Which leads to "waiting for the next new thing" to come along. Not exactly a good business model when you're banking on excitement and interest to drive continued profit through micro-transactions.

Ok. I'm done venting in a semi-constructive manner.

Question: If this was driven by IGP would you tell us? We got evasive answers during the consumable fiasco, and now... man, I'm regretting backing you as a founder, plus the money I've put in thus far.